To agree that ds16 is ruining his brothers childhood

[cantcopeanymore0]

I posted a few years ago about ds and got some advice but also judgement

He's 16 and technically in year 11 but I told them he wasn't to do his exams as it's not worth the added pressure when he's missed so much school

It started at 13 when I got a call from his school after they saw self harm marks and from them everything has got worse, I was constantly fobbed off by the gp who put it down to hormones. He sees camhs now but frankly they're useless. His anxiety is bad which is why he isn't going to school in the first place, he doesn't sleep at night due to his anxiety. He self harms and smokes weed/drinks something he's been doing since he was 14. He attempted suicide at 14 and has twice since then including in March which was a serious attempt which he had planned in advance and it wasn't impulsive like the previous 2. I told them I didn't feel he was safe at home and was told to just lock everything away which we have done

Because he's not at school one of us has to be with him but we work so it's hard and we also have a 9yo together and are trying to protect him as much as possible. I don't sleep most nights because I'm worried about him and he's constantly on a downward spiral, mine and partners relationship is also suffering. I find myself snapping at DS1 a lot for example a few weeks ago he was wearing his hoodie in the heatwave and complaining and I snapped at him then and felt guilty after

Partner took both boys to the fair which was a big step as eldest barely wants to go outside anymore at least not to busy places, he goes for walks on his own (which I hate) but that's it. He ended up wandering off so DP left youngest with his brother and went to find him. He was sat on some grass crying, DP sat with him but DS wouldn't tell him what was wrong and just got up and walked away when he was finished

Today we planned a movie night with youngest and told him this morning before school but then plans changed as eldest had snuck out this afternoon and DP had gone to find him (I was working, DP was WFH) and he was drunk and covered in sick and shouting at people walking past for laughing at him (including children who had been picked up from school).

DP asked MIL to pick youngest up and he's sleeping over at hers but youngest is now upset too and said <brother ruins everything> when I was on the phone to him as MIL had told him eldest was poorly and I can't help but agree even if it's not his fault, I feel like he's ruining youngest’s childhood and I have no idea how long we can continue protecting him for

I just feel like I cant cope with him anymore, I've fought for help from school, CAMHS, gp and nothing. The most the school did was give him a reduced timetable a few weeks before the end of year 10 and he went the most he had all year but then they said they couldn't do it in year 11

Yabu

I dont contest that you are at your absolute wits end with him. But making him into the enemy or an annoyance isnt the way to go

His brother is going through hell. One day your 9yo will be old enough to rebel in his own way and that will also be tolerated, because its what you do for kids

I'd speak to the 9yo and say you shouldn't speak about your brother like that, he just isnt well.

Sorry, op, i dont judge you at all, because who can, but i think this isnt okay x

It may help to know that you are not alone.

I won’t pretend his childhood hasn’t been compromised and to an extent ruined, certainly it’s different to the one he would have otherwise had. There are so many siblings of children with problems - mental health, physical health and emotional problems - and their suffering is often unnoticed.

I wish my words were more comforting but you’re really not alone, although I imagine is feels that way.

You will just have to do things on the spare of the moment with youngest so he’s not ever disappointed. So if eldest is having a good day, all is calm at home then suggest the movie night etc... But don’t make plans in advance, as you may need to back-track because eldest is struggling, and this will leave the youngest resentful of his brother - not cool.

You are clearly an exhausted, loving mother who has been fighting for her son for years without nearly enough support. Please don’t take on guilt for snapping occasionally, or for that thought that he’s affecting your youngest. Those are completely human responses to an impossible situation.

You have probably tried this or given it a go, but I thought there may be something here worth thinking about- sorry if any of it is obvious or comes across as patronising. I am also not an expert in this area but have worked with young people in schools.

Given that the March attempt was planned, you could ask CAMHS directly what his current risk classification is and what the crisis escalation pathway looks like. If you ever feel he’s in immediate danger, taking him to A&E and requesting a psychiatric assessment is an option. You don’t have to wait for CAMHS to move. The weed and alcohol will also be actively worsening his anxiety and the self harm, and CAMHS should be addressing that as part of his treatment, or so I believe, so worth pushing on that specifically if they aren’t.

On your youngest, it’s worth telling his school what’s going on at home if they don’t already know. A child living with a seriously unwell sibling may be recognised as a young carer, and schools have a legal duty to support them. In practice that usually means a named adult he can go to and a bit of flexibility on harder days. There are also young carers projects in most areas where children meet others in the same boat, which helps them feel less alone in it. Worth googling yours.

And on you, the Young Minds Parent Helpline (0808 802 5544, free) is specifically for parents carrying what you’re carrying. You matter in this too.

You haven’t failed him. You are trying your best.

I'd speak to the 9yo and say you shouldn't speak about your brother like that, he just isnt well.

Or maybe OP could just listen to the 9 year old who is clearly miserable and who must be constantly walking on eggshells and worrying about his brother and his brothers effect on his mum and dad. He can't even look forward to a planned outing, because he knows that there's every chance that it won't happen/will be ruined.

He's nine. It's expecting far too much from him, to expect him to grin and bear it.

OP can you and your DH divide and conquer? One of you takes the younger one out for a treat while the other stays at home? Whole family or both siblings outings seem destined to fail.

if the 16 year old is neither in school nor work, where does he get the money to buy weed and alcohol?

I strongly disagree with this. The 9yo is allowed his feelings about this, he is living with it too and he will have anger, fear and resentment around it that shouldn’t be suppressed.

OP I have been where you are and it’s pure hell on earth, I’m so sorry. My younger child is still dealing with the long-term effects of living with his older sibling’s MH problems and what it did to all of us. CAMHS were useless for us - worse than useless, actually, because they kept promising help and then letting our child down. Family therapy helped, but it was really brutal.

Just remember that you can’t work miracles, you didn’t cause this and you can’t be all things to all people. Yes, your 9yo is being affected too and you can give him love, sympathy and acceptance for those feelings, but you can’t wave a magic wand and make it all go away. You can only do your best.

I agree with this.

And don't promise things you can't deliver - only promise a movie night if you are both available to share the effort and make it happen. But do make this a priority, as it is only fair.

I have full sympathy, it is a horrendous situation for you. It is terrible that there is not more help available.

He's definitely allowed to feel how he wants - but as a parent, agreeing with him is unkind imo

The oldest kid is unwell and is trying to kill himself. To be saying hes ruining his brother's childhood is strong and uncalled for

I would definitely suggest a divide and conquer tactic maybe - with protected time with just him and one parents.

But sorry, to unite and say his problems are ruining his brothers childhood is wrong, even though youre just clearly exhauted op.

Yes was going to suggest this. In a v similar situation in that my eldest has severe autism. I make sure my youngest has 1:1 time with me every Saturday and partner looks after the oldest.

May I suggest you contact your local carers charity and see if they have a Young Carers group for your 9 year old? At least call them and see if they can help. You may feel he's not a carer, but they will have all sorts of help he can access.

I'm confused how many kids you have - are there 2 or 3? Is DS1 and DS16 the same person? Who was the youngest left with at the fair if you only have 2 kids?

Was DS1 wearing a hoodie and complaining about the heat? Just wondering if he is autistic/neurodiverse as that would explain not wanting to take off the hoodie which provide emotional security. He might struggle with* *interoception and temperature regulation/recognition.

ASD/ND might also explain the very obvious struggles he is also suffering from, anxiety is highly comorbid, self harm is common, depression up to 4 times more likely than in the general population.

Is he doing any physical exercise? Some people really really need it to boost endorphins. When my DB had serious MH problems as a teen, that’s the single thing my parents focused on for him. School and studies just didn’t happen, but exercise created routine.

Me and DB used to go on bike rides together, can your eldest take your youngest on bike rides to give him some responsibility? Teens with MH issues still need to grow up and build self esteem and learn to be responsible, even if that feels impossible.

I would seriously consider other options at this stage to ensure your nine year old had some quality of life.

Is there any relative he could live with? Even if it’s part of the week it might allow him to feel safe.

Could you and your DP live apart and your nine year old could share time between you both? I really think he needs a safe space away from his brother and I would be trying to find a way to provide that.

How is your 16 year old affording weed and alcohol? Who is buying the alcohol for him?

Can he take SSRIs?

God, where and how is he getting weed? That will fuck him up massively.

You mentioned "We have a 9yo together" is your DP your eldest's stepdad?

Is private MH support for your eldest an option? What have the GP and CAMHS actually said apart from "nothing"?

I normally agree with everything the first poster writes!! but totally disagree with this.

Your youngest is entitled to his thoughts and feelings and these are valid. He is being so open and honest, life must be hard for you all. I think you are doing a brilliant job recognising the impact on your 9yo whilst trying to deal with DS1’s mental ill health. I would contact CAMHs I would be clear and say you cannot cope anymore, I would ask what the escalation plan is and how they plan on supporting you and your family.

I don’t know if this is an option but is there anything privately locally you could source? What charities are there and what do they offer? We used to run a day service in CAMHs to give carers a break - I am not sure if there’s anything like that?

Is DS1 on a meds? can they be reviewed?

I am sorry this is happening to you, my youngest has had CAMHs and ED services involved in her care - we are 4 years down the line, her older brother (after a few drinks - he’s 22) will say she ruined our time together! and that she is clearly the favourite. It breaks my heart, we have tried so hard to balance time, love and attention and have clearly not done a great job. We keep trying though.

Sending hugs to you x

Objectively speaking, yes he is ruining your younger child’s childhood. Your younger child needs time away from his brother with either you or his dad, if both of you isn’t realistic.

It sounds a dreadfully hard situation, I really feel for you, op.

From bitter experience, I would do absolutely everything in my power to stop him smoking weed. Who is giving him the money for it? This needs to be an absolute priority. Your youngest in my opinion IS allowed to express how he feels, he’s suffering too. I wish you all well, because I know just how hard this is.

He is not only ruining his brothers childhood he is ruining his own by taking drugs and drinking alcohol as a child!

How is he accessing weed and alcohol?

How does he afford to buy weed and alcohol?
sorry op , you sound desperate and it’s madness professional services cannot support you.
hold on to your partner these tough times won’t last and you’ll want to be together when you come through them x

A few words of sympathy for your youngest. My sister had mental health problems that required enormous amounts of time for care and management. My life was so restricted compared to my school friends. It was rare that I took people home.
I am not saying you don't recognise the problems.