To agree that ds16 is ruining his brothers childhood

[cantcopeanymore0]

I posted a few years ago about ds and got some advice but also judgement

He's 16 and technically in year 11 but I told them he wasn't to do his exams as it's not worth the added pressure when he's missed so much school

It started at 13 when I got a call from his school after they saw self harm marks and from them everything has got worse, I was constantly fobbed off by the gp who put it down to hormones. He sees camhs now but frankly they're useless. His anxiety is bad which is why he isn't going to school in the first place, he doesn't sleep at night due to his anxiety. He self harms and smokes weed/drinks something he's been doing since he was 14. He attempted suicide at 14 and has twice since then including in March which was a serious attempt which he had planned in advance and it wasn't impulsive like the previous 2. I told them I didn't feel he was safe at home and was told to just lock everything away which we have done

Because he's not at school one of us has to be with him but we work so it's hard and we also have a 9yo together and are trying to protect him as much as possible. I don't sleep most nights because I'm worried about him and he's constantly on a downward spiral, mine and partners relationship is also suffering. I find myself snapping at DS1 a lot for example a few weeks ago he was wearing his hoodie in the heatwave and complaining and I snapped at him then and felt guilty after

Partner took both boys to the fair which was a big step as eldest barely wants to go outside anymore at least not to busy places, he goes for walks on his own (which I hate) but that's it. He ended up wandering off so DP left youngest with his brother and went to find him. He was sat on some grass crying, DP sat with him but DS wouldn't tell him what was wrong and just got up and walked away when he was finished

Today we planned a movie night with youngest and told him this morning before school but then plans changed as eldest had snuck out this afternoon and DP had gone to find him (I was working, DP was WFH) and he was drunk and covered in sick and shouting at people walking past for laughing at him (including children who had been picked up from school).

DP asked MIL to pick youngest up and he's sleeping over at hers but youngest is now upset too and said <brother ruins everything> when I was on the phone to him as MIL had told him eldest was poorly and I can't help but agree even if it's not his fault, I feel like he's ruining youngest’s childhood and I have no idea how long we can continue protecting him for

I just feel like I cant cope with him anymore, I've fought for help from school, CAMHS, gp and nothing. The most the school did was give him a reduced timetable a few weeks before the end of year 10 and he went the most he had all year but then they said they couldn't do it in year 11

As the older sister of a an Autistic but very capable younger sister I feel his pain. Holidays, friendships family life feels like it revolves around the child with most needs. I feel that your younger one needs as much love and flexibility as the older one. I always felt that the more my parents rushed to meet my sisters various needs the more she took. As an adult she is selfish, entitled and a sanctimonious alcoholic. We are not close and the only reason I offer her support is so our parents have some relief from her shenanigans.

Does he have a diagnosis other than anxiety?

What are his interests, what makes him happy? Is there anything you can help him tap into?

Does the school understand critical suicide history/present risk and their duty to safeguard him rather then blindly enforce attendance? The school should have access to alternative provisions (talk to the LA if the school fail to be solutions focused)

Ask CAHMS for an urgent appointment with their consultant, state he needs medication (fluoxetine?) urgently. Therapy can follow.

Was he admitted to hospital with previous suicide attempts? Next time refuse to take him home unless they have fully assessed by psychiatrist and medication is in place.

Can you get respite? You and he both need more support. CAMHS seems to useless when young people are struggling.

Can your partner and MIL take your 9 year old away for a weekend to do something fun? I know he’d rather have both parents there but if that’s not possible this could be a good alternative? Divide as well, one of you takes the 9yo and one the teen to make sure the day isn’t ruined for everyone. Family days probably aren’t going to work for you atm.

I feel for you, mental health support is so overloaded and underfunded. It’s hard to recruit people to go into it as well as the working conditions are poor and you can face a lot of abuse. It has such a knock on effect though, on a&e/police/benefits/education. I really don’t know what the answer is but it seems the problem is getting worse.

How ridiculous! The nine year old is allowed to have his own feelings.. they are valid too! It’s a difficult situation, but to expect a nine year old to just deal with it quietly, is absurd. Glad you aren’t involved in real life !

Dunno why you needed to get personal

The boy is suicidal. He is unwell. The 9yo his presence is ruining his childhood is understandable as its how he feels, but i wouldn't be encouraging that or agreeing with it, I would be encouraging compassion

I totally disagree with this comment. How flippant.

A bit of sympathy for the younger one would be nice.

It's called Glass Child Syndrome.

So sorry you're going through this. What matters is that as parents you're both trying very hard, it will make a difference later.

Long-term support in cases like these is non-existent in my experience. My sibling was misdiagnosed, our parents were called pathogenic parents, the works. I forgave my sibling eventually as their problems weren't their fault and they were clearly suffering. They committed suicide after multiple attempts throughout the years after they were discharged from hospital, which happens very often.

The best way to help your youngest is to validate his feelings, get some psychoeducation and a good therapist, and maybe later involve him in helping you in caring for his brother. It sounds counterproductive but it can help him see his brother more kindly and some degree of involvement seems to decrease likelihood of mental illness in siblings.

I don't think i am being flippant. His brother has a serious illness. Unlike cancer, its in his head and requires parental intervention to keep him alive.

Noone is saying he cant feel how he feels but as a parent, saying this about the oldest is going to do more harm imo.

He doesn’t do any excersise he usesd to do kickboxing and football but he quit.

His only diagnosis’s are adhd (diagnosed at 6) and dyslexia. He’s not on any meds for it though as he refuses because he doesn’t see the point but camhs are fixated on him taking adhd meds to see if it helps. They won’t give anything else, they originally said they don’t prescribe them for under 16 but now they say he shouldn’t be reliant on them so young and something to do with his weight as he is small for his age

Re where does he get money from for the weed and alcohol He would initially steal from us or hang around with older lads, i don’t think he is now but he did/does have a bf who’s doing an apprenticeship, i don’t think the relationship is healthy and according to ds they’re having a break. i’ve been trying to get him to stop the weed atleast for the last 2 years but he just won’t. He says weed makes him feel better for ‘a bit’ or comes home and sprays aftershave hoping we won’t notice

about 1:1 time during the football season DP would take eldest to the football when they were playing home matches and i’d have time with youngest (he hates football anyway) but since the season has finished that's not been possible

Eh? What’s the partner done 🤔

What a totally pointless contribution to the thread.

I also found your first post shockingly unrealistic and callous, so that's several of us now.

As all together family events seem impossible to plan now, are you able to take turns in taking your youngest somewhere fun, just to blow off some steam and make him happy?
His childhood is tough, no doubt about it, sadly though it isn't his older brothers fault he is unwell, but neither is it your youngest's fault.

Time out from the home situation, even if just a trip to the cinema for a couple hours may do wonders. Keep talking to your 9 year old, let him know you're there for him too.

Okay well you can gang up on me for wanting... support for a suicidal teenage boy?

My posts have been fair and sympathetic of the op's predicament. Please dont derail the thread by having a pop at someone offering genuine advice.

My partner hasn't done anything, he's raised my eldest since he was 3, be's not the cause of DS’s issues. They have a good relationship the majority of the time, and they go to watch the football together and he took him to wembley to watch their team recently and DS was really happy and had a good day even though he's miserable all the time. He's been there during school meetings and the suicide attempts and self harm

So he does no exercise but smokes weed and drinks alcohol. Doesn’t sound like the best recipe for good MH for an adult, let alone a teen.

The oldest kid is unwell and is trying to kill himself. To be saying hes ruining his brother's childhood is strong and uncalled for

It's not uncalled for. It's the truth. One can feel for both boys at the same time. But pretending that the older one is not ruining the younger one's life, is dishonest.

OP doesn't say that she has said that to the younger son. She said that she agrees with him, but that could just be in her head. She may not have voiced it.

But the fact is that her younger son's life is one of fear, of unpredictability, and of being let down. He has every right to voice that, and to deny it would be all kinds of wrong.
Yes you can say that his brother can't control his his behaviours, you can say that his brother is also suffering, but you also have to acknowledge that he is absolutely reasonable in feeling that way.

Bloody hell op you’re really going through it trying to hold all this together.

I think 9 y o needs some dedicated 121 time throughout the week whatever that may be- playing a game or sitting chatting to him while he gets ready for bed- the little things that show him you’re present in the moment.

Please don’t tell him to suck it up as another poster seemed to suggest or 9 y o will end up following the same path.

Link in with the 9 y o school as others have suggested as they could actually be the person that listens when needed and stops 9 y o spiralling.

You also sound like you need a breather. Not sure how though.

You need to reframe this. Your DS1 isn’t ruining anything. His mental health problems are impacting BOTH boys’ childhoods. This isn’t something he is doing, and when one family member is ill, it inevitably impacts the whole family. You wouldn’t blame him if it was a different kind of illness.

If course he's ruining his brother's life. Ruining something doesn't assume intent. The rain can ruin a fete. Your car breaking down can ruin a day out. The flu can ruin your birthday.
The older son isn't deliberately ruining his brother's life, but it's being ruined all the same. His parents' lives aren't as that great either. Mental illness is a bitch, and it doesn't just impact the person with the condition.

This is what I’m fighting. I have a DD with considerable trauma and autism (not that we’re anywhere near a diagnosis having been sat in the system for years!). Self harming, suicidal ideation, she needs medication which I’ve been pushing for for years. Clearly very depressed and a complete ball of anxiety. Been told over and over that it’s very rare that a 14 year old can be given medication. So what, does she have to attempt suicide (again!) to get it?! Nope, been told that won’t work either. CAHMs pass her off with ridiculous minimal signposting every time. Gp can’t do anything until she’s 18. I lock everything up but we are being denied the services they need! I find it absolutely disgusting. Adults can just get prescribed while these teens lives are made 100% more miserable even while they’re expected to go on to take exams which will determine their lives and career aspects! It’s absolutely fucked up.

Perhaps you need to be open and honest and tell him how he affects other members of the family and then tell him to buck up or loose out because you will now be prioritising the youngest. He’s had his run.

I say it with kindness. My parents had a no nonsense approach and it worked for me. I too had those thoughts