To agree that ds16 is ruining his brothers childhood

[cantcopeanymore0]

I posted a few years ago about ds and got some advice but also judgement

He's 16 and technically in year 11 but I told them he wasn't to do his exams as it's not worth the added pressure when he's missed so much school

It started at 13 when I got a call from his school after they saw self harm marks and from them everything has got worse, I was constantly fobbed off by the gp who put it down to hormones. He sees camhs now but frankly they're useless. His anxiety is bad which is why he isn't going to school in the first place, he doesn't sleep at night due to his anxiety. He self harms and smokes weed/drinks something he's been doing since he was 14. He attempted suicide at 14 and has twice since then including in March which was a serious attempt which he had planned in advance and it wasn't impulsive like the previous 2. I told them I didn't feel he was safe at home and was told to just lock everything away which we have done

Because he's not at school one of us has to be with him but we work so it's hard and we also have a 9yo together and are trying to protect him as much as possible. I don't sleep most nights because I'm worried about him and he's constantly on a downward spiral, mine and partners relationship is also suffering. I find myself snapping at DS1 a lot for example a few weeks ago he was wearing his hoodie in the heatwave and complaining and I snapped at him then and felt guilty after

Partner took both boys to the fair which was a big step as eldest barely wants to go outside anymore at least not to busy places, he goes for walks on his own (which I hate) but that's it. He ended up wandering off so DP left youngest with his brother and went to find him. He was sat on some grass crying, DP sat with him but DS wouldn't tell him what was wrong and just got up and walked away when he was finished

Today we planned a movie night with youngest and told him this morning before school but then plans changed as eldest had snuck out this afternoon and DP had gone to find him (I was working, DP was WFH) and he was drunk and covered in sick and shouting at people walking past for laughing at him (including children who had been picked up from school).

DP asked MIL to pick youngest up and he's sleeping over at hers but youngest is now upset too and said <brother ruins everything> when I was on the phone to him as MIL had told him eldest was poorly and I can't help but agree even if it's not his fault, I feel like he's ruining youngest’s childhood and I have no idea how long we can continue protecting him for

I just feel like I cant cope with him anymore, I've fought for help from school, CAMHS, gp and nothing. The most the school did was give him a reduced timetable a few weeks before the end of year 10 and he went the most he had all year but then they said they couldn't do it in year 11

Take him to A&E. Don’t leave till he sees a psychiatrist.

I think this is a really good point.

my younger sister has autism and it’s only very recently (and with therapy) that I’ve been able to say that actually, that was quite tough for me to grow up with and it took up a lot of parents time and that in lots of ways I was quite neglected. It wasn’t anyone’s fault, but it is true and it was a major breakthrough for me— in my forties— when my Mum acknowledged this too.

However at the time the narrative was that I was the lucky one and that I should be grateful that I wasn’t my sister and that I breezed through school and did well academically and socially. I couldn’t say anything out loud within the family about my struggles being in the shadow of my sister’s autism and the stress that her being non-verbal for a long time but on my parents. That narrative was quite damaging and not being able to acknowledge how hard it was for me did me a lot of harm.

As such I would say give your younger son the space to feel how he feels. None of it is anyone’s fault and it isn’t a blame game, but he’s allowed to feel what he does about the situation and he— and you— should be able to acknowledge it.

@Supersimkin7 out of curiosity, what do you think a psychiatrist can do? OP and her partner are clearly loving attentive parents, and they can’t help. He doesn’t want medication. He won’t take advice about health (weed, alcohol etc). I imagine he won’t engage with counselling either, because teenagers rarely do.

What magical powers do you think a psychiatrist has? And I can assure you, despite the perception on MN that being sectioned is a solution to all psych problems, it really really isn’t.

I don’t think agreeing in full will help your 9yr old. Agreeing that the illness ruins everything would be better. Not just 9 yr olds times or family time but his brothers’ too, and yours and DH’s. It acknowledges the harm your 9yr old is suffering (and he is) without agreeing that it’s your 16yr olds fault. But also point out that, though it’s hard, you have each other and you can get through it.

I may just be picking at semantics here, but I think you need realise that you haven’t and can’t actually protect your 9yr old from this. He will be affected, he obviously already is. Explain the illness to him as gently and mildly as you can. And for the rest - it’s about making sure his needs are also met and giving him a framework to so he can feel loved by everyone in the family and feel able to love everyone. I’m not clear what the relationship between your 9yr old and 16 yr old is, but if there are any pockets of friendship and understanding, it would be good to encourage them. Mainly, though, it’s divide and conquer. One of you with the 16yr old and one of you with others. Plan things so the 16 yr olds drama is unlikely to disrupt planned times for the others. And try and plan some times for you and DH, when possible. It’s a hugely stressful situation and you need to keep yourself

I hope things turn around soon, OP. It’s harrowing to watch this sort of illness spiral and feel so out of control, scared and helpless.

It sounds like he might need anti-depressants or mood stabilisers or some such. Can you ask his CAMHS provider about those?

HE isn’t ruining his brother’s life, though. The illness is.

This message is also to OP, @cantcopeanymore0 and anyone else going through these problems:

You say your GPs won't prescribe anti-depressants/mood stabilisers/the like for patients under 18. I completely agree with @Labibibabibidum that that is ridiculous. Teen brains are not exempt from needing psychiatric meds!

I lived away from the UK for twenty years, and at a couple of points when visiting, I needed a medication refill. Couldn't use my old GP as I'd been away too long, and this situation was what led me to discover the joys of the private GP. It's "only" about 120 pounds for an appointment at a private GP practice, which I do appreciate isn't cheap, but if it gets your teens the medications that they need, it's worth it. They might be more open to prescribing those meds. In my experience, the private GP appointment was totally unhurried, all the time in the world, and SO easy to book.

Your teens sound so unwell that I'd have thought it's worth a try.

The private GP then writes to your own GP letting them know what they've done, if you have one, and weren't effectively a visitor like I was.

Another avenue, along those lines, is to get a private appt at a Nuffield Hospital. (Or any other private hospital.) My dad's partner's wound was not healing, so we get her an appt at one, in desperation, with a private dermatologist at our nearest Nuffield hospital. That was a bit more expensive, at 220 pounds, but I think you will be able to see a psychiatrist for that cost, not just a GP. If you can afford it, I really think that would be the best thing. Again, the private doctor then writes to your own GP letting them know what they've done.

I know it's a lot of money, but if you can afford a few private appts, it might make all the difference. You might be all right with just one appt, if you get the meds your teens so desperately need, and then go back to your own GP. Becuase if they are working, your GP won't just take them off. If they don't work first time (as sometimes you need to try different ones) you might need more than one psychiatric private appt.

I am experienced with mental illness in the family, and I have seen the transformative effects of medication.

From what you've both described, your teens absolutely need to be on meds, and it's shocking that they are not, even after suicide attempts.

Edit: If this doesn't work or is not an option due to cost, you are simply going to have to INSIST on meds to your current GPs. Tell them that your child is suffering, the whole family is suffering, and that this simply cannot go on. And say that if your child kills themselves, having already tried, but were denied meds that could help, it'll be THEIR fault.

You can also put in a complaint, possibly to the GMC.

I cannot believe how shockingly bad it is not to give teens in this state of mind any meds.

Gosh OP what a horrendously scary and difficult situation for you all :(

Totally understand why your 9yo would feel that way....can he get some counselling through school or elsewhere? Someone to talk to outside immediate family?

You say your oldest has ADHD (is he medicated for that?) and know the condition can unfortunately result in increased likelihood of mental health difficulties, but his situation still sounds very extreme for one so young, especially considering that you and DP sound like good parents.....has there been a traumatic event that happened around the time he was 13 and you say all this started?
Or something from his childhood that manifested and is now coming out?

Weed and alcohol are hampering a solution so restrict the ability for DS to obtain them.

Keep most social outings for just one kid.

Enlist a family member, paid carer or friend to spend time at your home socialising with DS1. Get him used to sometimes being home without you.

Join a charity foster carer program. Special outings for either of your sons could give you all a change and some respite.

Do not back down from strictly making DS1 observe some safe and civil requirements while he is living in your home.

No alcohol.

Curfews.
Attending medical appointments.

Doing some chores/cooking.

No violence.
A daily walk of the dog.

Aim for DS1 to become as independent as he can. Washing. Shopping. Cleaning. Cooking. He has to be able to learn and feel accomplishment.

Commend DS2 for being kind and seeing that DS1 is unwell but engeneer family life so that the young one does nor have too much interference.

Would DH anc DS1 be able to join a local outdoor habitat conservation group involving physical skills, muscles, sunshine, digging etc.? Visible achievement could help DS1's self esteem.

This is a very sensible and measured response to an awful situation…I couldn’t have put it better if i tried…..thinking of you OP…x

OP's son is in such a state that he clearly needs meds. When people need psychiatric meds but don't have them, they turn to things like weed and alcohol to help them cope. It's called self-medicating.

Poor lad.

I can relate to most of your eldests issues, I have been through similar with my DD
Thankfully she doesn't self harm or make attempts on her life.
School was a write off but luckily I managed to get her in to college
Has your DS been tested for autism? My DD was diagnosed recently
This could be one explanation for your DS behaviour, they tend to do what their peers are doing, also making "friends" with the wrong type of people are typical traits. My DD takes medication for severe anxiety and it certainly helps. I didnt want her to be medicated but the difference is amazing
Could you try and get your DS into a local college? I wish you well but please don't write your son off, there is always other approaches you can take

I sort of agree, but I think it is the 16 year old who should stay elsewhere or they should alternate.

OP would it be safe for him to stay with grand parents or a friend? Not all the time but to give your 9 year old a break.

I don’t think you’re looking at this in the right way, sorry. There’s some scapegoating going on here that will not be helping at all and you need to be the adult rather than agreeing with the young child and modelling that the older child ruins everything. If the last attempt was planned and serious, that’s very significant. As much as your image of what childhood should be is being challenged right now, the bigger risk is that your child/children who become adults will carry a suicide with them. I am not at all saying that you are responsible for preventing this but the family dynamic does not sound healthy. Therapy might help you understand some of what’s going on and your own feelings. Contact Mind, they may be able to advocate for your son.

What an ignorant and judgemental post!! You have absolutely no basis to suggest the mental health is anything to do with the partner. What makes you think depriving a struggling parent of the support of the other person who is helping her would be helpful? I hope you never have to face something similar in your life because you clearly lack understanding.

Stop the weed and alcohol for a start. He's been smoking weed since 14?? So is that self medicating?? I feel sorry for the 9yr old. You need to clamp down on the addictions because an already depressed mind won't be helped by drugs and alcohol. His on/off boyfriend giving him money? Where does he get the regular income to fund his addictions?

So sorry for your loss.

Totally agree with your post.

Could you try to negotiate with him to go on the ADHD medication? Might he agree to taking it for a month to see if it helps. He is basically self medicating with the weed and alcohol but that will be making him worse in the long term.

My sister has borderline personality disorder and she terrorised the household growing up. It can’t be avoided. I was sent to boarding school and that protected me a bit. When your youngest gets older he will understand but can you try to explain to his older brother is unwell? My parents never explained my sister’s behaviour and tried to cover up her condition, but it would have helped as a child to understand as it seemed like everything revolved around her and I didn’t matter. Different standards and I always felt like she was favoured because of that, she appeared to get away with anything. As well as being as a child on the receiving end of someone’s severe psychiatric condition which she unleashed mainly on me and my brother. You’re dealing with so much. So many children grow up with mentally ill siblings or physically ill siblings sadly. There isn’t much you can do other than try to explain it to him, and the fact you’re aware of this dynamic as painful as that realisation is helps xx

I was wondering this?
take away any alcohol out the house and any access to any money.
speak to social services and do a self referral and say you’re struggling and ask for some support.
It sounds horrendous and something has to happen here before your 9 year old discloses this to school and they escalate to safeguarding - it would be much better to escalate it yourself and say “we’ve got a problem” and work with them.

This is a good idea - as you’ll wait months otherwise. Is he under the crisis team?

I agree. If you can afford it, go Private. The NHS is on its knees and help with mental health in particular is shocking atm.

Agreed.

X

Me too.

The older child doesn’t have to be the enemy but it’s also okay to acknowledge the negative consequences on the younger child too. You can empathise with their feelings without demonising their brother. If anything I think that will help them to empathise more with their brother. You don’t teach someone empathy by showing none to them.

I also agree that the younger child should be given some special time and attention just for him. Even if that means the parents take turns in just focusing on him if the elder one can’t be left alone totally.

Also I would try and get in touch with support groups. Maybe Papyrus the young person’s charity for those with suicidal tendencies. There may be other organisations for those with ND. I agree with a PP that physical exercise can help with wellbeing. Also getting out in nature. Routine and structure.

Plus it sounds like you could do with some support too. Maybe some counselling for yourself or a group that supports carers as that’s what you are really for your older child. I sympathise it must be so hard.

Is your eldest on medication?