To agree that ds16 is ruining his brothers childhood

[cantcopeanymore0]

I posted a few years ago about ds and got some advice but also judgement

He's 16 and technically in year 11 but I told them he wasn't to do his exams as it's not worth the added pressure when he's missed so much school

It started at 13 when I got a call from his school after they saw self harm marks and from them everything has got worse, I was constantly fobbed off by the gp who put it down to hormones. He sees camhs now but frankly they're useless. His anxiety is bad which is why he isn't going to school in the first place, he doesn't sleep at night due to his anxiety. He self harms and smokes weed/drinks something he's been doing since he was 14. He attempted suicide at 14 and has twice since then including in March which was a serious attempt which he had planned in advance and it wasn't impulsive like the previous 2. I told them I didn't feel he was safe at home and was told to just lock everything away which we have done

Because he's not at school one of us has to be with him but we work so it's hard and we also have a 9yo together and are trying to protect him as much as possible. I don't sleep most nights because I'm worried about him and he's constantly on a downward spiral, mine and partners relationship is also suffering. I find myself snapping at DS1 a lot for example a few weeks ago he was wearing his hoodie in the heatwave and complaining and I snapped at him then and felt guilty after

Partner took both boys to the fair which was a big step as eldest barely wants to go outside anymore at least not to busy places, he goes for walks on his own (which I hate) but that's it. He ended up wandering off so DP left youngest with his brother and went to find him. He was sat on some grass crying, DP sat with him but DS wouldn't tell him what was wrong and just got up and walked away when he was finished

Today we planned a movie night with youngest and told him this morning before school but then plans changed as eldest had snuck out this afternoon and DP had gone to find him (I was working, DP was WFH) and he was drunk and covered in sick and shouting at people walking past for laughing at him (including children who had been picked up from school).

DP asked MIL to pick youngest up and he's sleeping over at hers but youngest is now upset too and said <brother ruins everything> when I was on the phone to him as MIL had told him eldest was poorly and I can't help but agree even if it's not his fault, I feel like he's ruining youngest’s childhood and I have no idea how long we can continue protecting him for

I just feel like I cant cope with him anymore, I've fought for help from school, CAMHS, gp and nothing. The most the school did was give him a reduced timetable a few weeks before the end of year 10 and he went the most he had all year but then they said they couldn't do it in year 11

"His only diagnosis’s are adhd (diagnosed at 6) and dyslexia. He’s not on any meds for it though as he refuses because he doesn’t see the point but camhs are fixated on him taking adhd meds to see if it helps. They won’t give anything else, they originally said they don’t prescribe them for under 16 but now they say he shouldn’t be reliant on them so young and something to do with his weight as he is small for his age"

Wise advice

Agree with the posters saying it's the illness not the 16y old impacting on the 9y old however it may be worth thinking about when/why these episodes occur. So for example did the 16y old know about the cinema trip?
I speak from experience I'm afraid with a self harmer that if there was focus on another child things could quickly get out of hand. I took my 18y old to buy supplies for going away to Uni and came back home to a self harm situation.
If you feel there could be even the slightest bit of this please consider planning things and implementing them on the day with back up. So plan another cinema trip... Add something else on to make up for last time and have another adult around to help with 16y old.
Your 9y old will feel that ever treat is spoilt by the 16y olds illness so you need to factor in ways to prioritise him.

Your elder DS is an addict, and addicts can have an impact on their families for a generation or two.

Is there something like AlAnon (support group for families of alcoholics) for you and your younger son? He's not wrong that his brother's behaviour is having a terrible impact on him. Your younger DS needs support.

Hi OP. There are some helpful suggestions in this thread, but also several where posters are lucky to not have experienced anything like this. I suggest joining Sunflower Parent Support on Facebook to get support from others that have experienced similar. Suzanne Alderson's approach 'partnering, not parenting' in her book Never Let Go might also be helpful

Yabu
Your older son is seriously mentally unwell. I don’t understand why you’re not calling the crisis team or taking him to A&E when things like the fair happen. These incidents would be passed onto CAMHS and he’d be prioritised. Have you even filed any PALs complaints about the lack of MH care for him?

Unless they hear from you during every episode they are going to think he’s not that unwell. He isn’t choosing this, it is the lack of medical care that is doing this. You have to fight really hard for him, and if he needs to go into a hospital psych ward for a bit maybe that is for the best as he should not be able to just wander off and get drunk/high and then start harassing people on the street.

This is a good solution. One of my children has extremely complex learning disabilities and my husband and I use the divide and conquer method to ensure that our other child gets lots of parental one-to-one time. One parent stays home with the child who is struggling, the other takes the eldest out for the day. It’s tough to reimagine family life in this way, but it does work and you can use it to spend some real quality time with each child.

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I don't understand why you have not at least tried ADHD meds, as suggested. My adult DD was diagnosed with ADHD some months ago and has been taking meds since then, it's made a huge difference to her behaviour and her mood though it was not originally obvious that she had ADHD. She's never displayed any typical ADHD symptoms but has obviously struggled with it at times over her whole life and has had periods when she felt very low and couldn't cope.

Another one saying dividing your time is often the only way in situations like this. In our case, it's our 9yo who is autistic and highly anxious with mh problems as a result. We're lucky that they're transient in nature and she's finally coming through the latest episode (which has lasted since December) so we're beginning to find a way to having a bit more 'family time'. But over the years, and repeated episodes, we don't underestimate the impact it's had on our eldest (15). We've opted for a lot of one to one with both of them, and we take turns to watch our eldest play football. Nandos and cinema trips are also good - and they give me a much needed break from always having to think about and cope with dd's needs. There were several months when dd wasn't reliably leaving the house, we couldn't plan anything or go anywhere as a family. Even just dh playing Fifa with ds counts as time where ds is the centre of attention, and not dd.

It's incredibly difficult, and our experience of camhs has also been woeful. At times, I've even considered referring our family to ss to see if that unlocks more support.

I understand you're exhausted but you need to fight harder for him. Formal complaint to CAMHS, formal complaint to school, formal complaint to the local authority. He's entitled to suitable, full time education and should not have been left on a part time timetable or without education and you shouldn't be left to cope alone. Apply for an EHC needs assessment and appeal if they say no. He needs this support. Speak to Ipsea, sossen, coram child law advice, they can all give free advice on next steps you can take to get the right support in place for him. Ask your LA for a parent carer needs assessment for you and dh and ask for a young carers assessment for your 9 year old. You have to be 'that' parent unfortunately or they just all fob you off all the time.

But would you say the same if elder brother had cancer? Do people in those scenarios say that unwell chums ruin other children’s lives?

My childhood was the same as your DD2, OP. I think it's brilliant and loving that you're supporting him and acknowledging what's going on. I have no answers or advice, other than a hopeful 'this too shall pass'.

It's not about that, it's about allowing the younger brother to express his feelings. I wouldn't blame the older one. I suppose I would say that the illness is doing the ruining, not the sufferer, so I see what you mean.

I was disheartened to see that after the heartbreaking OP the first response was "yabu" and that @cantcopeanymore0 should tell the 9 year old off for speaking about his brother like that.

I've just reread the post, and it's less aggressive than I felt it was directly after reading the OP.

My mum was sectioned regularly from when I was 8. That was in the 70s, so I had no voice at all, so I'm naturally sympathetic to the younger brother's feelings. That doesn't mean I don't sympathise with the 16 year old.

I think if he made a serious suicide attempt then you should take him to A&E for a psychiatric assessment and possible section. Whilst being on a ward is pretty rotten it is an opportunity for him to be properly assessed and get onto the right medication.

Of course it’s likely they’ll need mental health support as you rightly say life revolves their sibling and where things haven’t been put in place early enough they have been sidelined.

We do take him to A&E when he self harms bad enough to need to go but they aren't very helpful, same with the suicide attempts. Someone from CAMHS talks to him briefly and then he is allowed to go home even though his last attempt was planned and it was more serious than the other ones and I told them I didn't feel he was safe at home they still let him come home.

He won't try ADHD meds again and I'm honestly not sure itd help his MH at this point, I feel like he needs antidepressants or something at least.

When I've said to camhs before about one of us has to be with him as we can't leave him alone due to the risk they say he has no reason not to be in school but he is very anxious and I was trying to push him and took electronics off of him but he slept all day so it didn't bother him and pushing him to go when he's like this isn't beneficial, he did go for a few weeks in December, not everyday as in he never did a full week but it was much better than it had been and he wasn't smoking weed etc (was drinking but not often) but he’d come home in a bad mood and would argue and snap at us (especially me) constantly and then it all unravelled again and he started refusing to go after Christmas.

I just don't know what else to do I feel like I've exhausted all options over the years and have been fighting to get nowhere

Why doesn't he want to take medication? Is he worried he'll be 'a different person', or the (not unusual) strong belief that nothing will work? Have you offered just to try it for a week/month?
He is still a child and not taking medication is often because of fear or lack of knowledge. At least get the prescription so the option is there.

Christ this is terrible advice! Gaslight a young kid and tell him he doesn't feel how he says he does, that his brother isn't s problem, when he clearly is!

I don't know what you can do about the older one, but you need to make the you get feel heard and cared for at the very very least

He took ADHD medication briefly when he was younger and he has said it didn't do anything and that it just made him feel sick so he refuses to try it again

Can they prescribe a different one? Also if he was 10, his body has changed and the side effects may not be the same. I understand the defeatism but the approach of 'give it a go, if nothing happens we can stop/try something else' is worth pushing.

I second requesting an EHCNA and appealing if refused. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use.

Unfortunately, the LA’s duty to provide provision under section 19 of the Education Act 1996 only applies to compulsory school aged pupils and 6 weeks before they cease to be CSA if they will not be sitting exams, so this won’t apply to DS. While the LA has the power to make provision, they don’t have the same duty to, so most of the time they don’t. This makes getting an EHCP even more important.

Have you formally requested social care assessments? A carer’s assessment for you and an assessment of DS’s needs. If not, Contact has model letters you can use. If you have and they refused to assess or assessed but refused support, did you take it further?

For DC2, have a look at Sibs and your local young carers service.

My DS16 takes Sertraline for anxiety (OCD). He gets Tercian in the evening to calm him down. Your ds is selfmedicating with weed at this point. It's better if he can get medical help because weed costs money and he's probably dealing in order to afford it.

Absolutely agree. It's incredibly hard for OP and other older brother of course. But this will be really challenging for the 9 year old too. 9 isn't an easy age anyway, hormones, friendship challenges, identity shift from child to pre teen, step up in schoolwork. They start to become really conscious of how the world sees them at this age, looking outwards rather than inwards, and if he is feeling less important than his older brother, this could have a profound long term impact.

OP - I agree with the 'divide and conquer' approach suggested by others. One of you take out 9 year old, either 1 to 1 or bringing a friend, so it's time thats just focused on his needs and wishes.
Also asking school if can support with 9 year olds MH.
And where possible, minimise time spent at MIL's - I fully appreciate that this feels to like a more stable place for him. But it could also feel like him being pushed out. If he does go, it would be better if you or his Dad went with him, so he still feels he has your attention and focus

I am so sorry you are going through all this, must be incredibly tough. Are social care involved - they could possibly support with respite care for older child, so you could both do something with 9 year old?

Is older son still on school roll? If they ask you to look at home schooling, do not accept EHE (electively home educating) and ask for EOTAS (educated other than at school), as this places responsibility on LA for supporting his needs with tutors, therapy provision etc and may bring with it funding for options which may support with his MH. There is a facility near us which has outdoor based learning with MH specialists, which some parents get funded under EOTAS

Where is he getting the money for weed and alcohol? Both of these will be damaging to his mental health.