To agree that ds16 is ruining his brothers childhood

[cantcopeanymore0]

I posted a few years ago about ds and got some advice but also judgement

He's 16 and technically in year 11 but I told them he wasn't to do his exams as it's not worth the added pressure when he's missed so much school

It started at 13 when I got a call from his school after they saw self harm marks and from them everything has got worse, I was constantly fobbed off by the gp who put it down to hormones. He sees camhs now but frankly they're useless. His anxiety is bad which is why he isn't going to school in the first place, he doesn't sleep at night due to his anxiety. He self harms and smokes weed/drinks something he's been doing since he was 14. He attempted suicide at 14 and has twice since then including in March which was a serious attempt which he had planned in advance and it wasn't impulsive like the previous 2. I told them I didn't feel he was safe at home and was told to just lock everything away which we have done

Because he's not at school one of us has to be with him but we work so it's hard and we also have a 9yo together and are trying to protect him as much as possible. I don't sleep most nights because I'm worried about him and he's constantly on a downward spiral, mine and partners relationship is also suffering. I find myself snapping at DS1 a lot for example a few weeks ago he was wearing his hoodie in the heatwave and complaining and I snapped at him then and felt guilty after

Partner took both boys to the fair which was a big step as eldest barely wants to go outside anymore at least not to busy places, he goes for walks on his own (which I hate) but that's it. He ended up wandering off so DP left youngest with his brother and went to find him. He was sat on some grass crying, DP sat with him but DS wouldn't tell him what was wrong and just got up and walked away when he was finished

Today we planned a movie night with youngest and told him this morning before school but then plans changed as eldest had snuck out this afternoon and DP had gone to find him (I was working, DP was WFH) and he was drunk and covered in sick and shouting at people walking past for laughing at him (including children who had been picked up from school).

DP asked MIL to pick youngest up and he's sleeping over at hers but youngest is now upset too and said <brother ruins everything> when I was on the phone to him as MIL had told him eldest was poorly and I can't help but agree even if it's not his fault, I feel like he's ruining youngest’s childhood and I have no idea how long we can continue protecting him for

I just feel like I cant cope with him anymore, I've fought for help from school, CAMHS, gp and nothing. The most the school did was give him a reduced timetable a few weeks before the end of year 10 and he went the most he had all year but then they said they couldn't do it in year 11

Yes, the elder child is ill. Yes, it’s not his fault. Yes, he needs support. That doesn’t change the fact that it is having a massive impact on the younger child and could, in fact, be ruining his childhood. Both things can be true at once.

The school have said he's capable when there is he tries but then he got into trouble constantly as he wanted to make everyone laugh, he'd walk out the classroom if he was told he couldn't go to the toilet etc. They constantly called when he wasn't in but when he was in I was also being called but school wasn't beneficial to him when he's like this as he's not learning anything and that was a reason I told them he wasn't going to sit his exams as he’d also missed so much school so he likely wouldn't pass especially as he does struggle with English as he's dyslexic and school didn't seem to get that and still made him read out loud for example. The worst thing I did was move him to that school in year 8 as he was happy at the school but he'd got a place at the current one after being on the waiting list and he said he wanted to move but I can't help but feel I persuaded him a bit and since then there's been no stop issues.

I will request an EHCNA but he'll be going to college hopefully in September. I'd rather SS not be involved if I can help it and I don't think there’ll be respite either way as I constantly read about high needs children with autism etc being denied it so I don't see how DS would be accepted

I feel for the 9-year old here.

Could you afford a personal trainer for the older one, for, let's say, an hour or two of very rigorous exercise a day while you can spend time with the younger one? Better than giving him pocket money for weed and alcohol.

I'd give him a choice: exercise or medication. Though I don't really understand why he gets a choice not to try medication in the first place, to be honest. Would you allow that if he was seriously ill? Well, he obviously is ill.

Haven't read all the comments so apologies if I'm repeating something but I just wanted to empathise with you. My youngest is 10 and has a lot to contend with at home. I can highly recommend using your young carers service and letting his school know the situation. My son's school are very supportive and offer him a safe adult to talk to etc. From a parent perspective it's so difficult to not feel like we're failing them. But we can't possibly be all things to all people. All we can do is our best for them but sometimes more challenging circumstances in their childhood can build a more resilient, caring and well rounded adult. Please don't beat yourself up about it too much. Make sure you access support for yourself too. Your GP would be a good person to signpost you to support.

He could sit Functional Skills exams now, privately: https://passfunctionalskills.co.uk/functional-skills-level-2/
It may give him a boost and then he could move on with an apprenticeship at college, without having to (re)do English and Maths GCSEs.

ADHD medication can make you feel a bit sick on the first day or so, this does usually go away once your body is used to it, or he could try a lower dose.

But in general I think it's counterproductive to start by insisting anything. It usually makes the most sense to start where he is willing to start and move from there. In addition, when there is suicidal ideation, stimulant medication must be used with caution because there is a danger that it can give someone the motivation boost to actually follow through with the attempt. But OTOH it can help the person make changes in their life which lead to them no longer feeling suicidal. This should all be something that his doctors are taking into account, though.

The behaviour about wanting to make people laugh, walking out of class etc is very typical for unmedicated ADHD. Sometimes I feel like young people are not always made aware of everything that ADHD can have an effect on. Even pamphlets we were given about 4 years ago were totally useless on this, IMO.

They hear the name, and like many people, assume it's to do with concentration and focus and it's only related to school work, but the reality is it's much more all-consuming and affects the way your brain processes and handles reward, motivation, and executive functioning (which is all the ways we plan and execute long term goals or changes in our own behaviour). So it can seep into absolutely everything. There are some good resources which explain this now, mostly online, and discuss strategies for how to deal with and manage different aspects of it. But this is only useful if he's interested in and welcomes information about his ADHD. Some teenagers feel resentful like this is just a label given to them by somebody else and it doesn't define them.

Don't dwell on a decision which was made and enacted 4 years ago. You can't change the past - you can only act in relation to the situation which presents here and now.

You have to fight for it, but it is possible to secure social care support for DC like you describe.

We don't give him pocket money for weed, he was hanging around with dodgy lads from his youth club which camhs referred him to and it was clearly meant for troubled children behaviour wise to prevent them causing trouble and not for ds. I don't think he sees them now but his bf or ex bf is 17, nearly 18 and does an apprenticeship so likely gives ds money.

He stopped the weed for about a month or 2 before Christmas but is now on it again, he has admitted himself it's because it makes him feel better for “ a bit”

I don't force him to take adhd medication because well how can I? He started it at 12 when he was old enough to say he wanted it as I didn't agree with medicating a 6 year old. But he didn't like the side effects and refused to take it. I personally don't think it would help with his MH to start now either because it's a separate issue.

You have to persevere with the meds, the dose needs adjusting as it varies so much from person to person. It isn't up to him to refuse if he is damaging the rest of your family life so much. So many suicide attempts should surely indicate to somebody that he needs to be sectioned for a while, if only to give meds a serious chance to work.

Have you discussed CBD oil with him? It could have similar effects without the THC in weed. It would remove the depressive effect but still relax him. Gummies could work well for him.

I'm pretty much anti cannabis btw, it's destructive especially for the young developing brain, but it's one way of working around his medication refusal.

I don’t think i have ever heard anyone say that they had a positive experience with CAMHS.

Yeah, yeah, they’re busy and overstretched, blah, blah.
That’s such bullshit.

I can see where you and your youngest are coming from tbh. It must be exhausting.
It’s a terrible situation for you all

I am so sorry you are all going through this it must be incredible hard for all of you.
If you and your husband are on the same page and a team that is a huge hurdle already so try to maintain that
We have a similar situation in our home but without the self harm.
We have 2 kids , our eldest has always had a lot of probelms , behavioural , emotional and social. He dominates everything in our family. His moods dictate everything.
We have a daughter 3 years younger who has most definitely been affected. She is a quieter personality by nature.
My husband cannot relate to our son AT ALL and will not accept his problems. Unfortunately we are now divorcing as he is contributing to sons issues and I cant cope anymore. I hate that he has failed as a parent and I will never forgive him.
It is so so so important that you split your time between them both and do not let the older one ruin things inadvertently for the younger one.

But no support for the 9 year old or the OP?

Op doesn't say she said that to the 9 year old though. It might just be what she privately thinks.

Maybe the 9 year old has heard 'compassion' for years and is wondering when it's his turn to receive some?

None of this is saying the older lad doesn't need support and compassion. But it's OK to also show some compassion for the sibling and not dismiss his own unhappiness by telling him his feelings aren't valid.
Today, with better understanding of mental health, we need to be aware of the mental health of those living alongside people like OP's eldest son. We can't shut the conversation down by dismissing/discouraging vocalisation. How we deal with siblings in this situation is just as important, otherwise there could be yet another suicidal teen in the family.
Let's not have another child internalising his pain because it's minimised against the backdrop of another's suffering.

I am sympathetic to them both in my first posts.

How is

I'd speak to the 9yo and say you shouldn't speak about your brother like that, he just isnt well.

being sympathetic to the 9 year old? It’s completely invalidating how he feels.

I said a whole load about how I feel for the op who must be at their wits end but agreeing that his brother is ruining his childhood isnt okay

And I would tell that to the 9yo. No kid is perfect and they all go through challenges. His brother is unwell, he has a serious illness. Theres loads that can be done without letting it be okay to say that hes ruining his childhood by being ill.

I feel for all parties involved in this tough set of circumstances, the op is doing their best. I just think that making their suidical son as a problem isnt the way forward.

In what way? You were basically saying 9 year should suck it up and if that sends him off the rails op can suck that up.

So you really do have no sympathy for a young child expressing how he feels.

No i am not at all saying that. I am saying that claiming their already suicidal son, who has tried to take his own life this year is ruining his childhood is too far. Its going to cause more damage in the long run, the boy can't help being unwell.

I also agreed that more needed to be done so that he gets one on one time, such as a divide and conquer approach suggested by other posters.

I am incredibly sympathetic to the mum who must be exhausted!

Have you thought about seeing a private pshyciatrist? I say this as someone who suffered from mental health for years and didn’t improve from nhs help. It was only when I went out see I got a completely different diagnosis and also then it opened the nhs to treating me with different medications and targeted cbt. Sometimes private psychiatric diagnosis can make a go sit up and take action. This is my advice.