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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think something significant needs to be done by the government to stop these horrific events occurring?

351 replies

Northermcharn · Yesterday 19:11

'Afghan men 'fled UK in lorry after raping girl'

Mobile phone footage recovered from Safi's phone showed the men in the lorry laughing and gesticulating, which Hetherington said suggested they thought they "got away with it".

When they were found by French police in Calais on 3 December, they were returned to the UK.
Hetherington said the trio had no travel documents or identification and had given false names to French authorities.
After their real names were checked on police systems, they were arrested on suspicion of rape.
Sali, of St Werburghs, denies one count of human trafficking and two charges of rape.
Habibkheil, of Lockleaze, denies one count of human trafficking and one charge of rape.
Ahmadzai, of Redcliffe, denies one charge of rape and one charge of assault by penetration.
The 16-year-old also denied one charge of rape.
The trial continues.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdx7rxj57zyo

The exterior entrance of Bristol Crown Court. It is a large sand coloured building with white columns outside the front, and large arched wooden double doors on the left.

Afghan men accused of fleeing UK after raping girl in Bristol

A jury is told three defendants left the country in a "deeply unusual" way after the alleged rape.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdx7rxj57zyo

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
bilbohaggins · Today 14:44

@RetiredFromExplaining
But the crime statistics are clear that the unaccompanied male demographic is committing more crime of a violent or sexual nature. This is not because of the colour of people’s skin, but because single men with little educational qualifications who have been raised in an environment of violence are more likely to commit crime. Unfortunately, we have allowed a lot of people into the country in this demographic and are still doing so. So there will be more of this crime, in addition to home grown crime. Why is it not ok for people to be concerned about this and to want more limited immigration?

RetiredFromExplaining · Today 14:46

bilbohaggins · Today 14:44

@RetiredFromExplaining
But the crime statistics are clear that the unaccompanied male demographic is committing more crime of a violent or sexual nature. This is not because of the colour of people’s skin, but because single men with little educational qualifications who have been raised in an environment of violence are more likely to commit crime. Unfortunately, we have allowed a lot of people into the country in this demographic and are still doing so. So there will be more of this crime, in addition to home grown crime. Why is it not ok for people to be concerned about this and to want more limited immigration?

Another racist.

Northermcharn · Today 14:47

RetiredFromExplaining · Today 14:44

No, I’m not a bot. I am just sad that you can’t see past the colour of people’s skin. I do hope you never have to encounter someone not white in your life so you can continue to live in your bubble of purity.

Ha ha you are showing yourself up now. Embarrassed for you.

OP posts:
SomedayIllBeSaturdayNight · Today 14:47

Northermcharn · Today 14:23

Who are you?

What do you mean? I am a poster who is trying to work out what you are asking so that I can understand the significance of 92% of posters agreeing.

RetiredFromExplaining · Today 14:56

Northermcharn · Today 14:47

Ha ha you are showing yourself up now. Embarrassed for you.

It’s interesting that you’re embarrassed on my behalf. Maybe you are showing that you’re embarrassed by your own views?

In my experience there is more that unites us as human beings than divides us. People are people wherever you go, most of them trying to live their best life.

I make it a point not to discard or disregard people simply because they come from a different background. Whereas you seem to write off whole classes of people based on their religion or skin colour. It’s a shame because you might be enriched by learning about their culture and experiences.

EasternStandard · Today 15:01

khw666 · Today 13:51

What I can't understand is why the border security did not stop him at Dublin airport. I thought Sudanese passport holders needed a visa to visit Ireland and they are highly restrictive. I hope we get the full information, although I feel it will be hidden.

Same

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · Today 15:10

RetiredFromExplaining · Today 14:33

There is an extrapolation from extraordinary events that “foreign” men, and men who are not white are much greater predators in the UK than white men.

This is grossly unfair to those law-abiding men who have come to Britain to contribute to our way of life, perhaps seeking respite from their own countries where masculinity is more heavily policed. Or maybe escaping a war or climate change or seeking a better life. Things that even native British people would be likely to do.

Assuming that all refugees or immigrants are like that is to not care about individual human beings.

The language on this thread is utterly shocking “their own women”, “wounded pride” the “pool of British born women” as if we are possessions of men, particularly those of our own nationality.

Sadly there is no changing minds on threads like this but it has to be challenged. Ten years ago language like this would be called out for what it is. Racism.

I am sad that racists now feel able to articulate their private nastiness on public forums like this. But at least we can see your poison.

Just imagine. Your thinking might be becoming a minority view 😯

RetiredFromExplaining · Today 15:22

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · Today 15:10

Just imagine. Your thinking might be becoming a minority view 😯

Perhaps.

But if your argument is “racism is becoming more popular”, that’s rather proving my point than disproving it.

Northermcharn · Today 15:27

SomedayIllBeSaturdayNight · Today 14:47

What do you mean? I am a poster who is trying to work out what you are asking so that I can understand the significance of 92% of posters agreeing.

Read the thread. Maybe start at the very beginning. It's a very good place to start.

OP posts:
SomedayIllBeSaturdayNight · Today 15:28

Northermcharn · Today 15:27

Read the thread. Maybe start at the very beginning. It's a very good place to start.

I have read the whole thread.
So, for the third time, what is your AIBU question?

Somerford · Today 15:30

RetiredFromExplaining · Today 15:22

Perhaps.

But if your argument is “racism is becoming more popular”, that’s rather proving my point than disproving it.

Allowing asylum seekers to break into our country and roam freely within our communities has caused women and children to be raped and has caused people to be murdered. It follows that allowing more asylum seekers to break into our country will lead to more rapes and more murders, if it's racist to not want this for our country any more then I'm fine with that.

Somerford · Today 15:31

SomedayIllBeSaturdayNight · Today 15:28

I have read the whole thread.
So, for the third time, what is your AIBU question?

The thread title is "AIBU to think something significant needs to be done by the government to stop these horrific events occurring?"

What are you struggling with?

Northermcharn · Today 15:35

khw666 · Today 13:51

What I can't understand is why the border security did not stop him at Dublin airport. I thought Sudanese passport holders needed a visa to visit Ireland and they are highly restrictive. I hope we get the full information, although I feel it will be hidden.

The loophole used by the Sudanese national to enter Northern Ireland is known as the "Irish route," which exploits the lack of routine border checks within the Common Travel Area (CTA). 1, 2]

How the Loophole Works
Flight to Dublin: The suspect travelled from Sudan via Paris and flew directly into Dublin Airport in the Republic of Ireland. 1, 2]
Cross-Border Bus: He immediately boarded a public bus from Dublin to Belfast. 1]
No Passport Control: Because the CTA allows unimpeded, open-border movement between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, there are no routine immigration checkpoints on buses, trains, or roads crossing the border. 1, 2]
A

Sudanese Belfast knife suspect claimed asylum after taking 'Irish route' back door to UK | LBC

The 30-year-old suspect is due in court later today charged with attempted murder

https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/belfast-suspect-irish-route-asylum-5HjdbPd_2/

OP posts:
Weeellokthen · Today 15:35

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · Yesterday 20:03

Labour will be entirely responsible for Reform getting in in 2029 unless they try and tackle this.

Absolutely

Weeallthewayhome · Today 15:36

RetiredFromExplaining · Today 14:56

It’s interesting that you’re embarrassed on my behalf. Maybe you are showing that you’re embarrassed by your own views?

In my experience there is more that unites us as human beings than divides us. People are people wherever you go, most of them trying to live their best life.

I make it a point not to discard or disregard people simply because they come from a different background. Whereas you seem to write off whole classes of people based on their religion or skin colour. It’s a shame because you might be enriched by learning about their culture and experiences.

I've chosen to leave a specific culture and let me be clear: I do not believe it enriched me to be constantly sexually harassed, be seen as lesser in the eyes of the law and authorities because I am a woman and to be excluded entirely from civic discourse on the basis of how I pee.

Why don't you spend some time in other cultures, specifically those with zero tolerance to liberal thinking, homosexuality, equality for women, music, dancing and any literature outside religious texts?

Then get back to me and explain why I would support importing those attitudes wholesale and unchecked into this beautiful country.

Northermcharn · Today 15:37

SomedayIllBeSaturdayNight · Today 15:28

I have read the whole thread.
So, for the third time, what is your AIBU question?

Oh I think it's you who is struggling. No matter, I won't go on about it. In your own time.

OP posts:
Badbadbunny · Today 15:40

MaturingCheeseball · Today 13:45

I just don’t get the barbers/vape shops/mini marts… what happened to Council Licencing Committees? Who is approving a fifth barbershop in a place with 15 shops in total (here!) ? There are not enough men here - let alone those still with hair - to support this number.

Is there actual proper checks or is it just a matter of making a registration application which is rubber-stamped without any actual checks?

thefloorislavayes · Today 15:41

Isn't there a party we can all vote for which suggests - to begin with - all asylum applicants no longer be hosted on British soul whilst waiting for their applications?

RetiredFromExplaining · Today 15:44

Somerford · Today 15:30

Allowing asylum seekers to break into our country and roam freely within our communities has caused women and children to be raped and has caused people to be murdered. It follows that allowing more asylum seekers to break into our country will lead to more rapes and more murders, if it's racist to not want this for our country any more then I'm fine with that.

Break into our country?

Seeking asylum is a legitimate activity and I hope you are grateful that you don’t have to leave your country of birth to seek acceptance elsewhere.

Roam freely?
It is not prison to come here and claim asylum.

You are obviously falling for hype.

EasternStandard · Today 15:45

Northermcharn · Today 15:35

The loophole used by the Sudanese national to enter Northern Ireland is known as the "Irish route," which exploits the lack of routine border checks within the Common Travel Area (CTA). 1, 2]

How the Loophole Works
Flight to Dublin: The suspect travelled from Sudan via Paris and flew directly into Dublin Airport in the Republic of Ireland. 1, 2]
Cross-Border Bus: He immediately boarded a public bus from Dublin to Belfast. 1]
No Passport Control: Because the CTA allows unimpeded, open-border movement between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, there are no routine immigration checkpoints on buses, trains, or roads crossing the border. 1, 2]
A

What kind of visa would someone from Sudan have to
enter Ireland?

Will Google actually

Somerford · Today 15:47

RetiredFromExplaining · Today 15:44

Break into our country?

Seeking asylum is a legitimate activity and I hope you are grateful that you don’t have to leave your country of birth to seek acceptance elsewhere.

Roam freely?
It is not prison to come here and claim asylum.

You are obviously falling for hype.

This is not a rebuttal of my previous post, have another crack at it if you like.

khw666 · Today 15:47

We need to remove the incentive to come here. Put them on floating boats or land away from the UK with the message you will not step foot in the UK and never be given permanent British citizenship. Plus you can't apply for your family to come here. It is time to be tough.

RetiredFromExplaining · Today 15:48

Weeallthewayhome · Today 15:36

I've chosen to leave a specific culture and let me be clear: I do not believe it enriched me to be constantly sexually harassed, be seen as lesser in the eyes of the law and authorities because I am a woman and to be excluded entirely from civic discourse on the basis of how I pee.

Why don't you spend some time in other cultures, specifically those with zero tolerance to liberal thinking, homosexuality, equality for women, music, dancing and any literature outside religious texts?

Then get back to me and explain why I would support importing those attitudes wholesale and unchecked into this beautiful country.

I have lived and worked in and with different cultures. I’ve seen what it means when women are treated as lesser, when civic participation is restricted, and when people’s freedoms are constrained by the state, religion or social norms.

I’ve met women and men affected by those systems. I don’t romanticise them.

What I don’t do is assume that everyone who comes here from such a country shares those attitudes, or that people seeking safety, opportunity or freedom are automatically rapists and murderers.

If we followed that logic consistently, we’d ban immigration altogether, because every country contains criminals.

The question is how we identify and deal with those who commit crimes, not whether we treat thousands of individual human beings as guilty because of where they were born.

khw666 · Today 15:49

EasternStandard · Today 15:45

What kind of visa would someone from Sudan have to
enter Ireland?

Will Google actually

This is what I was querying and I think they may have presented false documents because the alternative is Irish passport control did not do their job - another can of worms.

Northermcharn · Today 15:50

EasternStandard · Today 15:45

What kind of visa would someone from Sudan have to
enter Ireland?

Will Google actually

He didn't have a visa. He claimed asylum as soon as he got to belfast.

'The man travelled from Sudan to Paris, then flew from Paris to Dublin before boarding a bus to Belfast on 10 February 2023, where he immediately claimed asylum. He was able to take this bus journey because the Common Travel Area, which has existed since 1922, allows unimpeded movement between Ireland and Northern Ireland. I understand this is a route regularly taken by asylum seekers who tell British authorities that Dublin airport’s staff recommend the bus to Belfast.'

OP posts: