AIBU to question John Lewis advert and its message about women?

[Sheldonsheher]

John Lewis pushing this advert on my social media. Do they support oppression of women or is this a symbol of women’s right to choose .

Yes obviously but this traditional dress is commonly associated with patriarchy.

By you. Not by everyone. It's not up to you to tell other women what statement they are making, unless they've said so.

@Sheldonsheher why are you specifically calling out JL?
M&S have this kind of clothing as does Next. I am sure there are other mainstream shops as well.
Have you actually spoken to any Muslim women about their clothes or how they feel about wearing them?

Mine too! Loose fitting and long, especially when it gets warmer as I don’t want to get my arms out or slather myself in suncream!

But we ALL know that the hijab, and other garments of that ilk, were invented by MEN for women to wear. No woman who lives in the Middle East, where temperatures are searingly hot, would choose to wear a heavy BLACK garment, that covers her from head to toe, covering even the mouth and nose making it hard to breathe, and cope with the sun beating down on them, and being absorbed by the black cloth.

The MEN didn't even have the kindness to make the material white, to reflect the sun. No woman is choosing this, it was invented by men, and forced onto women. Any woman protesting otherwise has been indoctrinated and possibly brainwashed.

Look at photo's of women in Iran in the 1970's......not one of them wore a hijab. They wore clothes just like ours. Then, in 1983, thanks to Ayatollah Khomeini, it became legally mandatory for all women to wear the hijab, and any women refusing to do so could be fined or imprisoned. This is the oppression of women at it's worst. And as we all now know, that was just the beginning. Women now cannot be educated, or leave their homes without a chaperone. They aren't even allowed to sing in their own homes.

Women in the West should push back against such tyranny, not support it.

Like the Muslim posters at the beginning of the thread that got told they’re wrong! 😂

No it's very different.

Nuns dress the way they do in order to show their love and respect for god. Habits are hardly worn these days, they are quite anachronistic. I spend a lot of time in Rome, my Jewish mother in law lives right by the Vatican, and you never see a single wimple.

The hijab and adjacent modesty clothing is worn by Muslim women so they are not sexualised by Muslim men. And they don't have a choice, for the most part.

I find this thread deeply depressing. Are you really all that concerned about Muslim women and their potential oppression, or are you really just bothered by the fact that the burka is being sold by a popular British retailer? It’s just racism concealed by moral superiority. That’s what it is. This thread stinks!

I’ve seen it too. It could just be one of their better selling items?

Completely agree @GimmieABreakOr3

This thread is thinly veiled racism.

Precisely.

Doubt the people on this thread are really all that bothered by Muslim women if the burka wasn’t being advertised by John Lewis. Feminists, I think not!

I've heard it all now! 🙄

First off, the UK is not a hot country.

Second, I've worn an abaya in Dubai and in Morocco and they are very cool and comfortable.

Third, this does not cover the mouth and nose.

Fourth, many Muslim women choose to wear hijab. You're not better than anyone trying to force hijab on women if you're trying to force them not to wear hijab. That's still misogyny.

Finally, many items of clothing were designed by men and many of the most famous designers are men. Unless you avoid anything made by or inspired by a male headed fashion house, I don't see your point.

If I was living in Iran, I would also choose to wear a hijab. Because if I didn't, I would get thrown into prison. So, I would choose ....but that's not exactly a free choice, is it?

I'm pretty sure that women choosing to wear the hijab (or similar) in the UK, are heavily expected to do so, by the men in their lives, be it their fathers or husbands, and of course the wider community - again, not a free choice, not by a long country mile.

As John Heywood alluded in 1546 "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

I don't think it's islamophobic to realise this dress is actually cultural and not actually something that the religion dictates you do.

All that the book says is dress modestly. That in itself is an interpretation.

The reason women dress like this in these cultures from many centuries ago, is because of men and their roving eyes. If men could control themselves, women wouldn't have had to over the years, dress like this. It's all to protect from the male gaze which is the problem that I have with it. It is now sold as it's a choice thing and I am sure many believe it is. But if they didn't what would their families say about it?

I have no problems with the ladies wearing them and not saying they are coerced every time of course. But how it all started was because of men let's not pretend it didn't. You only have to look at men these days in all cultures and their attitude to what a woman is wearing and did she deserve it because of what she wore, it's sick and it's on the man not the woman.

Quite often in my city, I will see the man in western wear and the lady in full regalia. That in itself is incredibly sexist to me.

My friend is from a Muslim family. They are quite relaxed in a lot of ways, her mum is actually worse in her views, being from an African muslim country and her dad is a bit more relaxed having being born here. My friend has tattoos on her legs they have no idea as she isn't allowed to show her legs at home. They don't know she drinks, they don't know she actually doesn't believe in Islam at all. She has a white boyfriend and they know about him. She will moving in with him in the next year. She even eats bacon! It has been eye opening for me, her experiences.

She is like 30 and has to hide all this stuff and how she dresses when she isn't at home because of double standards for women.

I do agree if you want to wear regalia then do it if you want to. But it is not islamaphobic to understand the misogyny behind it.

We're not in Iran. JL is a British company.

Maybe you don't know many Muslim women. I do. Off the top of my head, I can think of many who choose the wear hijab even when the rest of the family don't and even a few circumstances when the men would rather they didn't due to fears for their safety when wearing hijab. I also know family consisting of a widowed mother and her professional daughter who live alone without any men.

Orthodox Jewish women also cover their hair and follow strict dress standards. Are you as concerned with liberating them?

I'm not sure how ranting on MN about an advert equates to Western women 'pushing back against tyranny'. You are achieving precisely nothing here.
The real push back against women's oppression comes from action. Working to support women survivors of DVAWG. Donating time and money to meaningful projects that increase education, improve health, provide employment opportunities and increase independence. Supporting women seeking asylum after fleeing tyranny.
The aim is not to swap male tyrants telling women to cover up for female tyrants telling them not to. You have no more right to insist on seeing a woman's arms legs and hair than a man has to tell her to cover them.
Because you have been socialised into the patriarchy, you are falling into the trap of believing the way to help women is to assert control over them in a different way, imposing new rules that you believe are better for them than the current ones. When the feminist aim should be that women are empowered to have free choice.
Given freedom, some women would not wear these clothes. Others would. It's the freedom of choice that matters, not the choice itself.