American Influencers who terminated for T21.

[ScaredButUnavoidable]

Has everyone else seen all the hatred online for the social media influencers who have decided to terminate a pregnancy due to a diagnosis of T21?

I have no idea who the couple are but today my social media feed is full of really abhorrent articles, videos and posts aimed at them (and about termination in general) and I’m just horrified.

Unsurprisingly they are in America, but even so.

I’m assuming the couple have been streaming videos about the pregnancy since the start and this announcement seems to have sparked absolute outrage.

Ok, the Influencers must have realised that some people would be upset by their decision, but at the same time, those same people must understand that although couples choose to have terminations based on medical conditions it’s still usually a very difficult and upsetting decision for them to make.

Has anyone else seen it?
I’m deleting as much of it as I can from my timeline but it’s constant.
They are even getting death threats.

It’s like a witch-hunt, it’s disgusting 😢

Of course, we all hope for our children to have as easy a life as possible. However, we generally end up with the baby we get, especially if prenatal testing isn't an option for whatever condition eventually emerges. I was prepared that could happen, even though it didn't till much later.

Of course. As I've said, you never know what will happen and you can only manage and minimise the risks, not control them entirely - but with testing for DS you do know, and you can eliminate that risk if you desire (or not, if you don't want to). As it should be, the choice is up to the pregnant woman (who will be raising the child).

I still think it's deliberately obtuse for people to pretend that a DS diagnosis is an outcome equally as desirable as discovering you're gestating a healthy child. It's just not.

Of course not. It will make our child's life more difficult, which none of us want.

I did decline the 12 week scan to do the initial screen as I thought it would just create anxiety if something showed up. I also knew I'd never have an amnio due to the small risk of loss. So I guess I chose to roll the dice there.

Even with all the awareness in the world sometimes there is just nothing left for the healthy sibling after the disabled sibling has taken everything their parents have to give and more. If the disability is severe enough, no amount of "awareness" will give the healthy sibling all the time and nurturing they need to grow up well.

My aunt and her husband sleep in shifts at night, they haven't shared a bed for 15 years, one sleeps with their severely autistic, non verbal son whilst the other one sleeps in bed. They only get half a nights sleep each and they both have chronic health conditions as a result of chronic stress and not being able to look after their own health. They have to lock the whole family in the garage to protect themselves when my non verbal nephew goes on a rampage and smashes the house up because he's having a meltdown. He smears feces on the walls. He's broken their bones. His older brother DESPISES him because he's never got the attention, time and nurturing he needed succeed when he was growing up. His brother took everything and left nothing for him. He didn't get to go to hobbies or have a parent spend one on one time with him because it was physically impossible for them to do so. They knew he needed those things but we're unable to give them to him because of the younger brothers needs and had no family support to give the older brother a good life.

Now the younger non verbal is in full time adult residential care because his parents couldn't cope with him anymore, all they have left is a smashed up house, failing health and a son that resents them and hates his brother. They knew the older son needed more but they just had nothing left to give him. As an adult now he is unemployed, has no qualifications and no prospects, he never learned the skills he needed to learn because he never got enough support. You can't pull time and the resources needed to nurture the healthy sibling out of your arse just because you're "aware" the child needs it. When there's nothing left for them, there's nothing left for them. No time, energy or money left. Just nothing.

It is incredibly short sighted to say you were more aware than everyone else because you provided for your other children. Just having that left over to give them is an immense amount of privilege many parents of disabled children don't have and the fact you think it's just that they are unaware of how they should provide for their other children is insulting. Severe disability ruins siblings lives because it takes more than anyone could possibly have to give, not because people are unaware they need to give the healthy siblings provisions too!

I'm not saying I'm more aware, but I am aware. All disabilities are different with different impacts. Some certainly make it easier than others to take a more balanced approach. I am in the more fortunate camp.

SerenaCat93 I am so sorry that your Aunt and Uncle and Cousins have had such an incredibly awful time with no family help. I can feel the anger and frustration in your post.
I was a bit confused as to why they are sleeping in shifts now when you’re cousin is now in care but I presume that you have simply got your tenses muddled due to the obvious horror that this has caused to your family.
I do feel though that the end of your post is very hard on thedogmademessagain who is the parent of a disabled person making the best of their lives..
The original post was about the hatred on social media turned against this couple, let’s not add to it.

Well it's less that 0.5 chance of it being wrong ( both positive and negative)

It doesn't have equal rights though.

Yes you are correct they no longer sleep in shifts, he has only been in care for three months though so they're still adjusting to normal life.

Yes this is about hatred that the couple are receiving but the impact on siblings and the reality of the life long task of looking after a disabled child is a huge part of the discussion that cannot be swept under the carpet by saying things like it can be overcome if you are aware of your other children's needs too. It cannot. And the people banging on about it being disgusting to terminate a pregnancy due to disability need to understand the utter destruction disability causes to lives and whole families to understand what they are really advocating for. Because the problem is that they don't understand what they advocating for, they can't possibly or they would understand that it's about the prevention of this level of inhumane suffering and not simply about wanting a perfect child.

They need to see beyond the cute little girl with down syndrome that their siblings love playing with and see the real, horrifying future that awaits many families of severely disabled children. When a PP tried to explain the impact it had on her and all the other people in her support group the poster you think I was too hard on commented in a way that suggests all that can be avoided if the parents are just aware. It can't. And comments like that water down the point all these posters are trying to make. It's not helpful, it's actively unhelpful because it's gives the people advocating against termination for disabilities ammo for their agenda of "the parents just aren't trying hard enough".

That is the root cause of the hatred this couple are getting. People think they're monsters, for what? Preventing suffering? They obviously don't see it that way. They see them as monsters who just want a perfect child, or people who didn't want to try hard enough to make a good life for their disabled child. They need to understand the suffering they are advocating for because a basic part of being human is having enough compassion to prevent suffering when presented with the opportunity to do so.

I don't have a problem with tfmr but I've seen bits of the videos and it's literally all for clout. I feel bad for the woman because in the gender reveal video the guy knew about the issue but just went ahead with the video. He brushed it off to his wife going "ah there might be a health issue but it's nothing major and let's do the video anyway". So she had the joy of finding out she was having a boy and then walking off to read the message from the doctors and broke down. It was all filmed and posted on YouTube. I believe they made further videos of themselves finding out the actual results and again this very private pain was filmed and posted for clicks. I'm guessing she consented to it but the whole thing made for a very uncomfortable watch. Like this is where we are now.

It is no one’s business.
When you open your life to the public, this is what happens, some influencer types think all publicity is good, the bad and good as long as it generates attention.
We live in a mad world of attention seeker fools celebrating talentless people.

I’ve seen it. The comment section on those posts are… eye opening. In the sense of some of the “hot takes” being so fucking stupid and completely unrealistic. For example; yes I’m sure there are suitable people out there who want to and actually do, adopt children with SN and complex disabilities. But I’d bet my house that there isn’t enough of those suitable people to go around adopting all these children and give them a good, happy upbringing. The amount of “pro lifers” who insist unwanted (for any reason) babies should be born and are then perfectly content with these children languishing in foster care is staggering.

I did see other posts from parents and other relatives of disabled children basically saying that they love their children but the medical debt they’re in and always will be in is huge. That was a factor I hadn’t even thought about until then. It’s hard being a carer to a child with disabilities as it is. Doing that with large amounts of debt because of it, must be beyond stressful.

This was the biggest factor for me in deciding to have a TFMR - the impact on my existing DS.

I cannot see how it’s a sane mindset to be about to discover these results and to think ‘oh let me just set the camera up first’. That’s my issue with this and much else on social media. It’s not normal, it’s never been normal. Because so many people are doing similar children are growing up thinking it’s normal to film these types of things. I have many chats with nurses about people filming themselves dramatically in hospital because they think it’s normal because so many celebrities now do it. Of all the times I’ve been in hospital I’ve never once thought ‘oh I must film and post this’. Bizarre world.

This. This is all there is to it. They made a decision to what they could cope with. I certainly wouldn’t be a let to raise a SN child so I fully support them.
it’s a sad situation all round.

But that’s something you can handle or be happy with.

not everyone can. And that’s fair enough.

All the bible thumping pro lifers are using it as an example of the evils of abortion as well. I am pro choice and I think they didn’t right thing. If they know they can’t handle a disabled child then that’s kinder than resenting it its whole life. But, should they have splashed it all over social media? Probably not the smartest idea. It’s been twisted into ‘oh they hate all disabled people and want them all to die’.

My thoughts exactly.
They're 'influencers' so are benefiting from this financially which just makes it even worse.

That’s it.
Ridiculous behaviour by influencers for clicks.

I used to work with a lady who had twins with DS (I know it is very rare). She was in the local paper about them. Said how amazing there were and how she would not have changed a thing. At work, she would say the opposite, and how she regretting having them. She was knackered and was always worried about what would happen to them when she was too old to take proper care of them.

Thanks. I wondered and I'll take your word for it, as I have no need to verify.

TBH, I was surprised at the comments they got. I read quite a few on Facebook. I didn't even know who this guy was until it randomly popped up on my newsfeed. I thought TFMR was pretty accepted now and that even if you didn't agree, why on earth would you dump on a couple who have just been through it? Disagree maybe but many of the comments amounted to vicious bullying. I can understand some reaction from the DS community though, that makes sense.

I'm pro choice and I don't judge them for having a termination, but I think sharing it and the whole pregnancy on social media (not to mention monetising it) was a really bad idea. I really don't agree with influencers using their pregnancies and children for content. I saw a lot of nasty comments on both sides. There were plenty of people saying cruel things about the couple but I also saw lots of people on Twitter saying disgusting things about people with Down's syndrome and other disabilities. You can defend the right to choose without spouting literal Nazi rhetoric about disabled people. Having a disability doesn't make your life worthless or make you any less of a person than non disabled people. Most disabilities can't be diagnosed before birth anyway. We should be doing a much better job as a society of providing high quality support, respite care and full time care when needed for disabled children and adults.

So apparently (according to X) the whole thing is made up, it's unconfirmed but certainly looks possible from their YouTube history.

That's a whole new level of sickness if it's true.

Bloody hell!

I dont have X or use YouTube so haven’t seen anything like this!

This is madness if it’s true!

As in the pregnancy was made up from the start or they just made up the termination?

What's the evidence for that? I can only imagine how many people have had painful wounds re-opened by this whole thing and how much worse that would be if it were made up.