American Influencers who terminated for T21.

[ScaredButUnavoidable]

Has everyone else seen all the hatred online for the social media influencers who have decided to terminate a pregnancy due to a diagnosis of T21?

I have no idea who the couple are but today my social media feed is full of really abhorrent articles, videos and posts aimed at them (and about termination in general) and I’m just horrified.

Unsurprisingly they are in America, but even so.

I’m assuming the couple have been streaming videos about the pregnancy since the start and this announcement seems to have sparked absolute outrage.

Ok, the Influencers must have realised that some people would be upset by their decision, but at the same time, those same people must understand that although couples choose to have terminations based on medical conditions it’s still usually a very difficult and upsetting decision for them to make.

Has anyone else seen it?
I’m deleting as much of it as I can from my timeline but it’s constant.
They are even getting death threats.

It’s like a witch-hunt, it’s disgusting 😢

Oh I agree with you, I was just musing about whether a time will come when activists says T21 should not be a reason for TMFR because it isn’t automatically incompatible with life in the same way that Edward’s and Patau’s syndrome are.

There have been people campaigning for years that Downs Syndrome shouldn’t be screened for and so I wonder if one day, if enough noise is made by loud enough people, that they will get their way.

They don’t know what causes it most of the time so an in utero test is way off. It seems very common now though and frankly seems like the worst diagnosis in terms of quality of life for the family. The families I know with non verbal autistic kids don’t sleep, they’re very aggressive, they can’t communicate or even engage with any toys or activities. They spend their lives distressed and locked in. Miles away from the lady I know with a child with Down syndrome who has a lovely life.

I would have made the same decision. I wouldn't have shared on social media.

A local influencer has a lovely little boy with DS. She has aborted a subsequent pregnancy due to trisomy 21.

It's not " their loss" if they don't want to have a child with downs though.

Nobody should be forced to continue with a pregnancy for ANY reason

As I said: Should people with children be hurt by any abortion for the same reason?

15 years ago I had a high risk pregnancy for downs. I had an amnio and felt untold stress not knowing. DD does not have downs. To this day I still don't know what decision I would have made had it been positive. No judgment here, walk a mile in their shoes.

I don't think the outrage is about their decision entirely. I think it is more about the comments he made that could be interpreted to be devaluing the lives of those with DS. I've seen a pretty strong reaction from that community.

I don't know a single person who would be disappointed their baby was perfectly healthy and normal because they wanted one with DS or other disabilities, and that tells you all you need to know. A healthy baby is preferable – for the baby's sake too.

Additionally, many people might know they'd be unable to cope with having a child with disabilities, so while anything could happen later on, they definitely don't want to choose that from the beginning. It's sensible.

Personally, I know I wouldn't want or cope with a disabled child, so I'd terminate too.

But your child could be diagnosed later. Having a child is a risk full stop. I don't think it's straight forward. One of mine has had a lot of suffering and pain. Same condition that led to the death of his sister, but we know about it earlier so it won't kill him. He's suffered for years, surgery, unpredictability but he says he is happy and does enjoy his life. He certainly does make the most of it and is doing well in life. Who am I to decide his life isn't worth it? He thinks it's worth it.

I'm not judging this couple for their decision, I just think a lot of the reaction is the way they talked about it. I'm sure if they could do it again, they'd just keep it all private.

I'm also surprised by the comments from so many people that they were advised to abort but went on to have babies that were 'normal', contrary to the diagnosis. I didn't know it could be wrong so often. I thought genetic testing was pretty spot on these days.

Absolutely. I did acknowledge that – but one can minimise risk as much as possible. DS is a risk one can generally control for, and eliminate.

So for instance, I took the unavoidable risk that my children might be, like me, autistic (and they are to a 'mild' extent) which is quite enough of a challenge to be coping with at times, but I was able to avoid the risk of other disabilities. It's sensible and responsible to do so, if you think you'd fail to cope.

I want my children to be as healthy, intelligent, and independent as possible, for both their sakes and mine, and if I'd known ahead of time that they would be intellectually and physically disabled and likely never able to live a normal life...I would abort. I would want a better outcome, because (potentially severe) disability is not the best outcome. No one is hoping their unborn child has DS.

People abort for finances, abusive relationships, having had enough children, because they're too young, and all sorts of reasons. There's nothing wrong with abortion for disability, and to remove that option would result in a lot more neglected disabled children ending up abused or in state care.

Previous posters are absolutely correct that we should assume that the way this has blown up is not organic.

The landscape in the US is bonkers. The "pro-life"/anti-choice lot only care about the baby until it is born. They're not funding a lifetime of potentially complex medical care, SEN education and residential accommodation. All that is coming out of the parents' pockets.

Contrast that to the Nordic countries, particularly Iceland and Denmark, where there is universal healthcare and free pre-natal screening and most women are not choosing to continue pregnancies where the baby has Down Syndrome.

I'm not going to take a stance on the decision of the couple as I know these things are never straight forward. I do think they might have got a different response if they had said, "We don't think we can handle this, American health care system not friendly for this, worry about what happens to our child when we can no longer be here, etc," they might have got a friendlier response.

I have to admit that if I was a parent currently considering this issue for an unborn child, I'd be rather rattled by all the people coming out saying they got that diagnosis and the baby was born perfectly 'normal'.

Yes, they were definitely very foolish to publicise the 'why' imo. Better to lie. Although perhaps they feared someone might leak the truth?

I figure there's always a chance the tests can be wrong, either way. You're playing the odds, really. Some people err on the side of caution, and others are happier to accept whatever the outcome is.

I think 'for personal reasons' would have done. If they had to say anything at all. Or 'we're sad to announce we lost the baby' with no reason.

It's always a gamble and DS, like autism, runs a wide spectrum as far as how the person is affected.

I personally have no opinion on what they have done as it is only their business but why put your life on the internet then complain people have an opinion

And if people want to call this victim blaming or whatever this year's new label is feel free

I think before anyone can judge they should be asked how many children with special needs will they or have they adopted. My guess is none.

It’s not really surprising that those who would force others to give birth, who are anti-choice, turn out to be dickheads to other people.

They’ve made the same choice as the majority of people with a Trisomy 21 diagnosis in pregnancy. Some of the people who say they’d never choose this would certainly do so if their choice were no longer hypothetical.

I have to admit that if I was a parent currently considering this issue for an unborn child, I'd be rather rattled by all the people coming out saying they got that diagnosis and the baby was born perfectly 'normal

I assume these people are either (a) full of shit/lying or (b) had their child before the more advanced/ accurate tests today.

Nobody is forced to continue a pregnancy. It’s just about at what stage they can’t force the state to intervene in their pregnancy any more, which is quite different. The state isn’t getting women pregnant, quite the opposite - we have a spectrum of free and highly reliable contraceptives so we don’t get pregnant. But if we do, I don’t think it’s a human right to force the state to intervene at any stage we like to then end that pregnancy. Medical staff have feelings and the vast majority will not want to terminate a healthy 30 week pregnancy, and we shouldn’t make them.

I’m not on social media but my DS1 is and he contacted me yesterday about this. He writes about and advocates for disability rights. Some of the comments in support of the couple were also horrific if you were a disabled person reading them and seeing what others thought your life was worth.

It’s absolute rubbish that they can get the diagnosis wrong. Some people may be conflating the results of the NIPT or the combined screening with a diagnosis. These are not diagnostic tests, though NIPT is very accurate. Diagnosis is always confirmed by either CVS or amnio before you are offered a TFMR.

just to add they may not be mentally, physically or emotionally prepared to take on a disabled child. Not to mention that in America, the lack of free at the point of use, healthcare means they may be paying an absolute fortune for medical assessments, diagnosis and help for the rest of the child’s life.
Also, I had an abortion, at 31 years of age, I was in good health, but the baby was draining me of everything. It was literally killing me and by the time I got to 10 weeks, we had to TFMR because I was dying. I have two other children and a husband to think about: the newest baby wasn’t even a baby at that point, more of a leech that was draining everything from me before my day had even started. I was so poorly I couldn’t do anything so TFMR it was.

Also, I had an abortion, at 31 years of age, I was in good health, but the baby was draining me of everything. It was literally killing me and by the time I got to 10 weeks, we had to TFMR because I was dying. I have two other children and a husband to think about: the newest baby wasn’t even a baby at that point, more of a leech that was draining everything from me before my day had even started. I was so poorly I couldn’t do anything so TFMR it was.

Good grief; a ‘leech’? That’s how you talk about a developing human? I have sympathy for your situation, having been through full blown medicated hyperemesis with DS, but you sound like you’re in denial frankly. A 10 week fetus is noticeably human shaped and has most of its anatomy at that stage. And that’s not a TFMR it’s a termination because you struggled being pregnant.

Leech? Are you serious?