How did you get over being left out by the other mums?

[fruitfly3]

Just that really. I have realised that there is a little posse of 6-7 of the other mums in the class that I’m not part of - actually, I’m actively excluded from. They are the sort of people I’d have a good laugh with and really enjoy hanging out with at the kids activities (professionals, similar interests etc). But they have formed a group that definitely doesn’t include me. The 3/4 other mums are lovely but not people I draw energy from (one is from a different culture and our sense of humour and chat is just different), one is a bit depressing etc and one is a SAHM whose outlook and life is super different to mine. It’s made me feel 13 again and left out by the popular kids - made me question how I come across and feel horribly self conscious. I went over to them at an activity tonight - they acknowledged me and then turned away and closed their circle. It was pretty awful. Not looking for explanations (or really to bitch about them) but wonder how you reframe it in your own mind? Adults are so so hard to make friends with.

I’ve had similar issues and it stings

I try to remind myself that in 3 years time these people will no longer be in my life and I try to make connections with people I actually like through hobbies / interests

Stings when my DC gets left out as a result though

The irony of that comment.

Calling other people names because it triggers some long buried sense of perceived rejection is very high school.

It doesn’t matter why they are doing it. Why is it so hard to understand that’s it’s fine to choose not to be friendly?

Yes glad school run is behind me. Op grown women can be nasty. My dd had it on sports team. Some them should know better at 26 or 27 how to behave). I met some nice mams through school. Its hard with cliques if they know each other well.

If they're not friendly back to you..inviting you in id stay away why would you want that in your life.
I wouldn't try again .. join new groups exercise, walking , etc things you like you will meet like minded people.

Oh for heavens sake, inviting someone to a birthday party does NOT mean you get an invitation to their party. How ridiculous.

If DC has been invited to 16 parties in the school year, I'm not hosting 16 children in my house! My child being well-liked doesn't mean I have to cater for a hoarde.

Some children are liked by pretty much everyone. Others plough their own furrow. (I have both kinds). Accepting an invitation doesn't come with obligations other than to be a polite guest.

No wonder there are so many threads about school gate drama if people are this lacking in resilience.

Not being included is not the same thing as being excluded.

Exactly.

Only a minority of people that you meet in any setting will want to befriend you, whether that setting is your own school, your child's school, your workplace, an exercise class or club etc. Just as you won't be attracted to everyone you encounter as a potential friend.

The people who don't grasp that are the ones who come on here and say, in genuine unhappiness and bewilderment, that they don't understand why they have no friends, because 'I'm nice'. Most people are pretty nice. In my days in the schoolyard, I chatted to hundreds of perfectly nice people. But it's not a quality that, alone, would motivate me to befriend someone any more than it would make me want to date someone.

Which all boils down to 'It's fine for other people not to want to be friends with you', in any setting.

Those words weren’t mine, which is why they’re in quotation marks. I wasn’t calling anyone names!

I realise that. However you made some comments about them being ‘unkind’ etc.

i am amazed at how many people get to adulthood without realising that not everyone thinks you are a nice person.

The more of these threads I read, the more I reflect that a huge amount of people seem to have unresolved issues with friendships and socialising, presumably a hangover from school, which they haven’t dealt with.

It is quite worrying that people are so fragile and lacking in resilience about basic day to day social interactions.

This is all normal stuff which people in workplaces have to manage all the time. Why does it cause this handwringing and drama when its in a school setting?

I don’t think people tend to behave like this at work much. I can’t imagine my colleagues standing in a circle chatting and refusing to include me.

I also can’t imagine saying to my boss, “I’m not working with Sharon on this task because we’ve got nothing in common. I’ll work with Lucy instead.”

At work we are being paid to be professional - we have to plaster a smile on and pretend we don’t think people are twats.

That has nothing to do with social situations though. As a PP said, this lack of resilience is quite a concern. And people are passing down their anxieties to their children and taking offence when little Johnny isn’t invited to a party.

But that may be the whole point. Work forces people to deal with stuff like this: you can’t afford to be this precious about whether someone forgot to smile at you or whether someone turned their back on you by accident.

I have always suspected (and cannot prove) that this “bitchy cliquey school mums” paranoia is far more acute in people who don’t work. No one with a job has time for it.

I'm not sure workplace dynamics compare favourably to school gate. I've known several people experience breakdowns and long term shattered confidence after bullying at work. School gate shenaigans seems to generate big feelings in the moment but then it passes.

To expand on that, I was hideously bullied, by a man, at work - he was careful in planning his undermining and belittlemet of me to get away with it, really put thought and effort into his cruelty. I've had awkwardness and unfriendliness at the school gate but the two just don't compare.
I think other posters are right to pick up, we go so quickly to "bitches" when women aren't giving us the social satisfaction we want, all these easy stereotypes ready to hand about how cliquey, sheep-like, insular mums are. Whereas, when it comes to the workplace, the stereotype is that everyone is well behaved and socially supportive? Because men are there? It's not one of those nasty women things.

Just doesn't accord with my actual experience at all.

I’m sorry you were bullied at work. I agree with much of what you’re saying. One of my friends was also bullied by colleagues and suffered from PTSD afterwards. His symptoms included frequent nightmares.

My friend’s job involved working with drug addicts and he said that as challenging as that often was, trying to work with his colleagues was the most stressful part of his job.

One of the points he made in his grievance was that the group of bullies always blanked him when he greeted them in the morning.

There was also other unpleasantness including persistent favouritism by the manager towards the bullies. This involved giving the less-favoured members of staff higher workloads, and scrutinising their timesheets and expense claims looking for any irregularities he could use to justify sacking them (he sacked two people for this, whilst his favourites were allowed to do as they pleased).

The manager also awarded promotions to his favourites without following the proper procedure. He couldn’t wriggle out of that accusation as the evidence was clear, although he was sent for retraining rather than disciplined.

My friend was offered a confidential payout and took it.

Workplace bullying is indeed horrific. I have been through it and it can ruin lives.

But that’s thankfully an outlier. Most people in most companies manage to find an accommodation with others who they have not chosen to be around. The process of having to rub along with people who are not a perfect fit and learning to be open minded is really important.

@ThepeopleversusworkI wasn’t fragile! It’s possible to observe something without being fragile and unable to deal with it! I absolutely moved on and had friends from other avenues of my life.

The main observation is that these people don’t just ignore other mums, they ensure their children are not friends with yours either. It’s quite difficult to understand why. My DD was just as intelligent as theirs and well behaved but if your face doesn’t fit, dc are left out. As an example, I had agreed with a mum to share lifts to the local music centre. Our DDs were in beginner strings. After 4 weeks she ended the arrangement because she was now taking another child and there wasn’t room for mine. That’s ok but am I supposed to feel happy or shunned? It’s like the old Cleese/Barker/Corbett sketch - “I know my place”. It’s probably around on u tube if you aren’t familiar with it.

I understand how it can feel like that. But I honestly, hand on heart, think that its a question of perception.

In the situation you cite here, you have no way of knowing for certain why she decided to prioritise the other child over your child. There are all sorts of factors you may not have been aware of: the other child's family could have been in crisis, they could have lived closer, it could be that neither of the parents drove. It could honestly have been the child's preference.

It's possible that in some situations this is an act of social engineering but I really think most of the time busy mums don't have the bandwidth or the energy to do this.

Also, as an associated issue, I think your reaction of saying "I know my place" is really unhelpful for you: because you're automatically setting yourself up as being seen to be socially inferior. Again, I can't know for sure that this isn't true but I highly doubt it. But by accepting this perception you are automatically casting yourself in this role.

If you want people to move past this perception, you have to shrug it off. If you fall into this "I know my place" perception you're not only ensuring that people will treat you in an inferior way, you're setting your kids up to have the same self perception.

If you think someone is dissing you or ghosting you, just move on from it, cut them out and don't give them a second thought if you have to. Do whatever you have to do. But don't keep telling yourself you're inferior. You're more or less inviting them to think the same thing.

But then it’s an opportunity to teach your kid the same lesson - not everyone is going to like you. They will come across many people in life who wont like them - not sure why it’s such a shock to grown adults.

If you make a big deal about it then they grow up to agonise over this kind of perceived slight.

So many times we see on here that a child isn’t invited to a party - instead of showing them how unfair it is, teach them that it is fine and they will come across people they don’t like all their lives.

You and your family are the most important people in your life but it’s likely these school mums don’t give you or your child a second thought.

@Anarchy99 My dc are adults and they rarely come across people who don’t like them! One is getting married and has 180 friends coming! Of course it’s not a life long learning experience to put up with excluding parents of dc at primary school. Of course I didn’t make a big deal of it! However intelligent dc do notice they get on with a dc at school and then never get a party invitation or an invite to play. It’s not me driving that! Anyway, dd moved to a boarding school for y7 and left them all behind. Thank god. At senior school she was always popular and no one disliked her. Neither have they at university or at work. She was head hunted 6 months ago (she’s an amazing networker) and has the best Chambers she could ever dream of - she’s a barrister. So no, I didn’t explain that many people won’t like her and neither is it true! The parents at age 7-11 were the shits here! Not us.

It wasn't a big issue for me as I'm quite socially independent and never felt the need to join in the gossip. I usually had a good book on my kindle or some admin to do on my phone so I didn't really pay attention to the other mums , and would have been quite inconvenienced if they wanted to chat.

You don’t need to be defensive about it. Im sure it is great having 180 friends.

Nobody is universally liked. They may have many friends but that doesn’t mean everyone on the planet like them.

However popular someone is, I can guarantee that there are people who don’t like them, they just don’t generally make it obvious.

And you have kind of illustrated my point. The inability to imagine anyone disliking them is the exact issue. And if they come across someone who doesn’t bother hiding that it comes as a shock.

Being disliked isn’t necessary a judgement on that person. I dislike many people even though they haven’t necessarily done anything to me. My colleagues would say I liked them all because I’m professional. In reality I think most of them are twats

And just by putting them on a pedestal and saying they are brilliant at everything - that is going to get a negative reaction from people without even meeting them