To think amount of Roma and Traveller children withdrawn from school underage needs to be cracked down on?

[Jane379]

Two things have made me think about this.

One was the recent thread on Venezuela Fury, Tyson's daughter. Her situation appears slightly different as apparently she did receive tuition online but it made me look into the wider situation.

I know there has been improvement, and that many Roma & travellers families don't do this. But it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. Yes, some who do may homeschool their kids properly, but how many?

There needs to be more regulation of homeschooling.

Why do Roma & traveller kids often slip through the net? Is it sometimes linked to families moving around so children move from one LA to another?

There' nothing wrong with kids preferring to pursue technical options than academic, or living the travelling lifestyle. But school would give them a chance to choose.

I can understand what you mean, but I think you're being unfair somewhat..lots of settled people love their elderly just as you describe.

But what if the parents live very far away? What if you need to work to pay the mortgage? We tend to have smaller families so fewer uncles, aunts, brothers etc to share the load, and we often move for work so live far away from extended family. It's not as clear cut as most settled people not caring as much.

Also some settled elderly don't want their children to spend huge amounts of time caring for them.

It's also fair to note that children are somewhat different in that you specifically bring them into the world and take responsibility. You are tied to parents by responsibility in the same way, but arguably it's not quite the same kind of tie, though I respect if in Roma culture it is viewed similarly.

Although we seem to do better on that front both with stopping the aggressive stage from becoming violent, and it seems to onset much later for most of us.

• this very interesting. Why might this be? If you have a lot of the community interacting with the elderly, there is some evidence it shows dementia. A lot of elderly people are very isolated for various reasons so less social interaction and this may speed up cognitive decline.

I don't think I can really speak for Rom people on that one. Attitudes vary.

I just looked up the word prejudice.

an unfair and unreasonable opinion or feeling, especially when formed without enough thought or knowledge

I think one reason might be that some medications for dementia can make people more likely to be violent, as a side effect? And new/ unfamiliar surroundings exacerbate dementia too?

All the more reason for the rest of us to find out about travellers, then!

Interesting, thank you. As you say, unfamiliar settings/people are another factor.

Yes, but it it is a fact that as dementia worsens violent behaviour can be a factor as part of the condition. When advanced it may be impossible to manage at home if the carers have jobs, children, and other family members to look after. 24 hour care will be needed.

The wealthiest people I know are... White British. The people I know who snort coke while their kids are in the house are... White British. Bonnie Blue is...White British.

Are you all wealthy, coke snorting sex workers? Or do we all just notice the worst of behaviour from people of other cultures? Is there a culture in the world that has no drug users? No violent men? No difficulties in navigating sexual relationships and women's rights?

Yeah I understand, and I absolutely don't judge anyone for putting an elderly relative with dementia in a home set up to provide the complex care they need. I most definitely would, having witnessed some really devastating efforts to provide that care within the family .

I was just was trying to understand why there's lower rates of/ less complex care needs in Roma community. Lower life expectancy overall might also play a part?

Please point me to where I said it's all travellers? Funny how a traveller on this thread was allowed to tar all non-travellers with the same brush though...

I also never said that White British don't ever take drugs, commit crimes, etc. but please don't pretend for one second that the traveller community doesn't do this just as much.

No, I was just curious what your perception was. I don't think I understand the reason for your definition of prejudice. Do you mean more open eyes from travellers would reduce prejudice towards them, by improving knowledge of them?

Lower life expectancy overall might also play a part?

• I thought this too.

But AtchinTan seemed to say it often onsets later than in non Roma elderly? My impression was that often in general dementia onsets in 70s or later, but I need to check this.

May I ask you something? Are you yourself Roma or traveller? I wasn't sure if you had said earlier or not, apologies if you have. I also understand if you don't want to give more info.

I suppose the implication I took from the "guess what" bit of your post was that of course it's travellers because who else would get away with that.

But, no, of course I'd never suggest the traveller community doesn't do/ deal drugs, though I'd say faw fewer are wealthy, and none are openly glamorising sex work.

Point was just, bad things are done by some people. But some people end up being taken as representing their whole ethnic group, while others are just, one person. No one looks at Bonnie Blue or Prince Andrew and says, white British people are sociopathic nymphomaniacs. Well, TBF, I think some people probably do, but I don't!

To respond to questions/ guesses about me - I'm not going to say my ethnicity. And all the stuff I'm saying I'd say in defence of any ethnic minority anyway. I'm trying to talk principles, even if flashes of the personal are coming out!!

I should first say that I quit my permanent teaching post 8 years ago.

The Scottish secondary school where I worked had a significant number of pupils who happened to be Travellers all the time that I was there. Only in the last couple of years were any of our pupils Romany.

It was the Traveller pupils who attacked Romanies rather than the other way round. So far as I can tell, the Travellers objected to the Romany children referring to themselves as Gypsies.

I once had a Traveller girl bursting into my classroom, intent on thumping the Romany girl in the class. (I dealt with it and had the assailant removed.) However, the assailant had come in yelling and screaming that the other girl had no right to call herself a Gypsy.

After she'd gone, the Romany girl declared "She thinks she's a Gypsy? I am a Gypsy! I have culture! What does she have?"

So far as I'm aware, most of our Romany pupils had come to Scotland by way of Portugal; the girl who had been attacked was an extremely intelligent girl and quickly gained fluency in English. She also spoke fluent Romanian and Portuguese.

ETA I recall that the parents referred to themselves as 'Roma'. If I've misused any terminology, then I apologise.

The guess what was more in response to the other poster who heavily implied that sort of thing doesn't go on. The same poster who does seem to think all white Brits are immoral...

Far fewer are wealthy? I would have to massively disagree on that one. The ones in my town living in the big houses, driving huge SUVs, dripping in designer clothes are definitely the travellers. I now work in a different place (in which I've never seen any drug taking/fighting but that's from any culture) and they are the ones always carrying huge amounts of cash.

Anecdote Vs data. The data is that far fewer are wealthy. And I'm sure you won't be surprised if I hint that some of that designer gear maybe wouldn't come with receipts... The houses and cars maybe come from pooled money. And, of course, there are some rich travellers. The fact is still that the majority are far likelier to be in poverty.

I understand 👍. Definitely it's good to think on terms of principles.

Do you have statistics that show Sikhs have more head injuries/deaths from motorcycle accidents than other groups, as a percentage?

This simply isn't true. There is ample provision for young adults and adults to take basic education courses to get their functional skills up to scratch. Some effort is required by the learner.

The people I know who snort coke while their kids are in the house are... White British

I don't know anybody like this.

@Puffinsandcoffee but it's not a one-off anecdote - it's what I've experienced all my life. Maybe unique to my town then but it absolutely is true

That's... nice?

What you've experienced all your life is anecdote. Not saying it's not true, just that it doesn't tell you anything about travellers in general.