To think amount of Roma and Traveller children withdrawn from school underage needs to be cracked down on?

[Jane379]

Two things have made me think about this.

One was the recent thread on Venezuela Fury, Tyson's daughter. Her situation appears slightly different as apparently she did receive tuition online but it made me look into the wider situation.

I know there has been improvement, and that many Roma & travellers families don't do this. But it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. Yes, some who do may homeschool their kids properly, but how many?

There needs to be more regulation of homeschooling.

Why do Roma & traveller kids often slip through the net? Is it sometimes linked to families moving around so children move from one LA to another?

There' nothing wrong with kids preferring to pursue technical options than academic, or living the travelling lifestyle. But school would give them a chance to choose.

Just as it is foolish to make assumptions about Roma/travellers based on no direct knowledge and silly TV programmes, it is very foolish to suggest that White British parents are snorting coke infront of their kids. And as for that person you mention, it makes me heave.

Yes, if you'd read all of my post you'd see that was exactly my point.

@Puffinsandcoffee ok, just the ones in my town then

You may doubt as much as you wish, but you asked and I gave you an honest answer!
You asked about "How would you cope " which I assume means how would my part of the Rom community cope.

No family could comfortably remain in the community if they sent their elders away. It would be deeply shameful and not something they could come back from. People would question marrying into that family.

Older people eat first, speak first, and are considered important.
Respect for them is part of our culture. If their minds do start to go it's noticed early.
I don't know any struck down under 85. It's notable in us.
When it does happen it is usually women as we generally out live men.

The female relatives are the main personal carers with most other women helping do everything needed, including washing, and things the relatives need to get done for the rest of the family, if that's needed.
It's where extended families living together, and community really matters.
People just aren't left to struggle on their own by others.

There was a series about 10 years ago on Irish tv (RTE) about a traveller family living in Ireland. It was called ‘Meet the McDonaghs’ and I found it quite educational. They seemed lovely though some parts of their culture were quite different to my own and it was really interesting. I’m also Irish.

I don’t know if it’s available anymore, but worth a watch if anyone finds it.

How does this work if women work outside the home? I assume most don't? Alternatively, if someone were working outside the home, would other female relatives care for the relative during this time?

So either people (although I'm guessing that mostly just means women) struggle to cope with someone who needs constant 24 hour care and may be violent alongside looking agter their own kids, organising their own homelife and having a job, or they're shunned by their entire family. That's worse than the homophobia.

Surely, if you're moving around a lot and changing schools, the only ones you would be able to attend at short notice are those which are less subscribed- which are going to be schools with a shittier reputation.
That doesn't sound like a conspiracy against travellers, it's just what happens when you decide to move around a lot.

This does sound like at least part of it...

Moreover, as that would perhaps explain why many Roma get the impression that settled culture is full of drugs, knives , etc

Well as (I think) most Roma women WFH if they work, families are larger and tend to live close together, I'd imagine the care is at least spread over multiple people. It does sound difficult if a woman wants to work outside the home : as does shunning someone like that, incredibly harsh.

Older people are part of the community. They are still active in it.
Even the really old will still be doing things like helping prepare vegetables, watching the pot, or a baby, or giving something a polish.
Sometimes it's not really that needed, but it's just how things are done.

Having a saying to hand when someone is complaining or telling a story is normal. So if they start not coming up with quite the right one it shows.
When the children start beating only them all the time at games, it's noticed.
So when they first start showing any confusion it's noticed straight away, and support kicks in fast.

I think for many in your culture even if they're managing it, older people are already in trouble by the time others notice there's a problem developing, so the support kicks in later when fear and worry about now and the future have already done their work.

Ours know in the back of their heads they'll be looked after as they age.

We know being part of everything is really important.
We also know company is really important, and engaging and reassuring helps.
So is quietly changing what can go wrong that makes them embarrassed.
When they start to not remember the details of stories they've told for years, everyone slides them in for them, and apologizes if they say they where about to say that, even if they weren't. (Often they will remember that bit next time, even if something else is missing)

We have lots of rituals big and small, and we know they really help.
We sing with them, to and for them, and play music for them and help them play cards and games, which all helps.
When things worsen, distracting before they get frightened helps them, and stops aggression building.
Not waking up alone confused is important in slowing things.
When fear happens anyway, comforting and distracting reduces it.

Some do, many do in a way that you'd call part time.
Yes.

I'm surprised so many find thf idea of caring for the elderly in the home and community hard to understand. It's very common throughout the world. The practice of putting people in homes is really more unusual in the big picture.

Often only the entrance year was full, but it was used as an excuse against us taking unfilled places for a time in the year groups we needed.

In the old days we had the Green Card system which allowed any child to take up any unfilled place at any state school, not be directed to one much further away that was less subscribed.

It isn't difficult if a woman's working outside the home. Others will step up.

Someone talked about 'social contracts' before. This is ours.

Tell me you haven't read my posts, without telling me you haven't read them.

I understand why you think not having a 'do whatever you like set up' is awful, but we're not exactly impressed with the results of it we see in other communities, and mainly find our own ways just fine, just as you do yours.

You’re just speculating now; don’t pontificate about something you plainly don’t know anything about. It’s offensive to those struggling to care for relatives with dementia.

It's not about "do whatever you like". It's about what's necesarry. Do you think most people wanr to put their loved one in a home? When my grandad was ill my mum spend practically every hour she wasn't at work with him. The rest of the family barely saw her except while helping with his care. She had carers come round to look after him when she was at work but eventually it wasn't enough because he needed someone with him all the time. He could be aggressive, sometimes physically so. It had a huge tole on her own health and probably contributed to her becoming ill, the whole family was extremely stressed all the time. Putting him in a home was the hardest descision she ever had to make, even though it was his idea and we visited him every day.

But yeah, clearly she just did't love him enough and put him in a home to die lonely and uncared about so she could have a do whatever you like set up and deserves to be shunned by her entire family.

What a fucking insult.

Which medications are these exactly?

Oh no, I'm not speculating. I had an elderly relative with Alzheimer's. Medication made her very aggressive, agitated, and sometimes violent. This was confirmed by her doctors. And ive known several elderly people who've deteriorated immediately on changing their environment. I didn't mean to offend, I was just suggesting my own experience in case it shed light on a wider observation.

Ah, that, I don't know. Sorry. And TBF, it may have been something her doctors told us to make us feel less hurt by her behaviour. They said it was the medication and. I just never questioned it.

Yes, for the many things that may be difficult to understand about traveller lifestyles, this isn't one of them. Non-travellers do this for their own elderly if they want to avoid residential care. Parents of teenagers/young adults with severe autism or learning disabilities are often forced into situations where one parent (and it's almost always the mum) will have to give up work to provide 24/7 care to their adult sized, violent, nonverbal, incontinent child. And there's little provision for respite or residential care.

Non-travellers do this for their own elderly if they want to avoid residential care.

• there are legitimate reasons why it's more unusual for non Roma though. Many DO want to avoid residential care. But if you're living a different part of the country, or have to work full time it's much harder. Non Roma are also much more likely to have less extended family living nearby to help, and will probably have fewer siblings than Roma people to start with.

There's also the fact that some settled elderly don't want their children to care for them.

Some of your questions sound more like assumptions: they're not based on facts. I also don't think you're owed an explanation, but I'll try to respond:

Are the police afraid to lay down the law? Travellers might say they experience excessive police brutality (especially the men, obviously) and, also, complete indifference from the police to the extent that it would never occur to, say, a traveller woman to expect the police to help her if she was experiencing DV. Beyond that, I'd also say that from my perspective the police aren't doing a great job in general - not just in policing travellers - and - maybe - they see traveller crime as minor/ inconvenient anti-social behaviour, and are dealing with bigger issues? But you'd probably need to ask the police this question.

The ostentatious shows of wealth are 1. not every traveller: travellers are much more likely to be in poverty 2. might be funded by the whole community, and 3. in some cases will be funded through crime. It's also just how travellers chose to spend their money: they don't tend to go on long haul flights or take gap years to travel around Asia.

Young boys of pretty much all cultures do silly/ dangerous/ annoying things - on horses, on bikes, in parks. And mostly are "allowed to" in that mostly the police don't have the resources to stop them. And what harm are they doing? It's an annoyance, and it's risky, but is it really a huge problem?

"Litter and excrement" - I've seen the aftermath of the soccer matches in British cities. This is another thing that crosses cultures. It happens when large numbers of people congregate and there aren't sufficient utilities. There may well be more mess at traveller sites, but is that, maybe, because traveller sites are so under-resourced? i.e. travellers often = large groups and insufficient utilities.

This is horrific.

I don't understand the judge's leniency at all. He must either be completely off his rocker or scared of retaliation/threats from the community etc