To think amount of Roma and Traveller children withdrawn from school underage needs to be cracked down on?

[Jane379]

Two things have made me think about this.

One was the recent thread on Venezuela Fury, Tyson's daughter. Her situation appears slightly different as apparently she did receive tuition online but it made me look into the wider situation.

I know there has been improvement, and that many Roma & travellers families don't do this. But it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. Yes, some who do may homeschool their kids properly, but how many?

There needs to be more regulation of homeschooling.

Why do Roma & traveller kids often slip through the net? Is it sometimes linked to families moving around so children move from one LA to another?

There' nothing wrong with kids preferring to pursue technical options than academic, or living the travelling lifestyle. But school would give them a chance to choose.

One reason is the higher incidence of genetic/metabolic disorders In consanguineous communities.

There were four roma boys at my grammar school, two were in my form (twins), they were really bright, liked school and were in top set for everything. Their parents took them out of education entirely at the end of year seven, they both cried on their last day as they wanted to stay at school, go to sixth form and on to university.

Hi OP

Sex education for a start but lately there is so much rot in schools that you'll notice even amongst other communities, home schooling is on the up. Especially with all the trans and furry stuff these days there's just no chance I'd be putting my children in there.

In their teenage years our children's lives and your own kids' lives are just completely different worlds and they really don't fit together. Yours are exploring things like sex and freedom, ours have strict courting rules. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, just that they don't work together.

To talk quickly bullet point how it works for us-

-At an age determined by their family, kids will be allowed to start what we call "going off", that means meeting up with friends their own age and socialising
-Boys and girls might talk to eachother but will stay with their group and a young girl and boy wouldn't be alone together
-When they get to 16/17ish they might get into a relationship, their close friends will know but their parents won't
-When they decide after however long that they can see a future together, the boy will go and ask the girls family to court her. At this point the relationship becomes public
-Once public they can go on dates as a couple but with strict rules, although majority of the time they'll do double/group dates with friends
-If they get to the point where they think they'd like to get married (could be another few years) the boy will go to the family for a second time and ask to marry her
-At this point they get engaged and plan a wedding

Sorry that was longer than expected, even though I tried to keep it brief!

Right, but my point is that Diana still had vulnerabilities etc. And still lived in a social group that put her at risk. There are obviously huge differences in her wealth/status/ opportunities, prob even confidence etc and mine. But I'm in the frying pan, she's in the fire, is kind of what I'm trying to say.

But I totally agree that women should have access to enough money to get away if that's what they need.

Very true. Though it's also true for Venezuela Fury. Extrapolating from the famous women of any culture to the rest of us probably leads to mistaken ideas about the culture generally.

But I don't disagree that DV is higher in traveller communities. And that better education especially literacy is a good thing. Whether it's protective against DV I doubt. I think that takes a whole change in culture and also a change in the outside culture too, so that travellers don't close ranks and keep their problems behind closed doors.

Haven’t RTFT but this was spoken about an awful lot a few weeks ago on the thread about Venezuela Fury.

Only 3% of travellers go to uni compared to approx 40% of young people on average, they’re the least represented group in universities. They also have the lowest GCSE attainment of any group. Effectively, many of them still follow the tradition of withdrawing them at 12 and expecting girls to become housewives and boys work.

Anyway, @Jane379 this has been a really interesting thread. Honestly I thought it would deteriorate pretty quickly into anti traveller bile. It was really refreshing to see how engaged and open to hearing other perspectives you've been. That's not normally what happens!!

@ThejoyofNC no offence but that lifestyle you describe doesn't sound that different to many non-Roma families.
"We" don't all allow our teens unlimited freedom to go off and be having sex anywhere and with anyone. Most non-Roma parents give their teens curfews and restrictions on who they hang out with and where they go.

Travellers are mainly of Irish heritage - is that right?

If so, and they find UK culture and schools so distasteful to them, and they refuse to participate in it - what the hell are they even doing in this country?

Ridiculous.

I didn't say that did I?

Travellers are mainly of Irish heritage - is that right?
If so, and they find UK culture and schools so distasteful to them, and they refuse to participate in it - what the hell are they even doing in this country?
Ridiculous

Do you imagine they have no social or educational issues in Ireland @CoffeeCantata?

True. You didn't. I apologise.
But others on this thread have given similar comments as the reasons why Roma children don't attend mainstream schools (because of the "lifestyle" schools apparently promote).
Your average non-Roma parents don't really want schools teaching about "furries" and stuff either.
I'm not even sure if they do actually.
Sex education is compulsory - but the the science part of it (how babies are made etc) and actually taught in primary school.

The Irish teachers I know tell me that they are far less tolerated and not given privileged status there.

I am tired of hearing Travellers complain about discrimination, exclusion, prejudice etc when

a) they make no effort to join UK society and resolutely stay outside it and
b) on here we've actually had it in black and white that UK schools and culture is disapproved of and actively resisted by Travellers.

With that attitude, what are they doing here?

Bloody hell as usualy any post about travellers is absolutely full of hate and racism.
So many comments to could not be further from the truth.

I agree they don't which is why I pointed out that home schooling is rising in many other communities also.
We withdraw our children from those types of lessons. Some primary schools can be extremely difficult about this so we just keep our children off school on the days it's taught.

Why don't you want the scientific basics of sex taught though?
At primary level it's mostly "how babies are made" and a talk on periods (sometimes just the girls first).

Because we don't want them to know those things at that age. Sex is for married couples. Men or boys would never, ever discuss periods.

Why do we make exceptions to law for peoples cultural or religious beliefs?
everyone should wear a helmet
everyone should go to school
rapists go to prison
no one can carry a knife
no one can cover their face in public

It's so simple.

So when do you teach it?
Girls can start periods at age 8 or 9. What do you tell them is happening and why?
Men don't have to discuss it but surely they need to know why their mothers/sisters/wives have blood every month?
It's basic biology.

Irish settled culture is disapproved of in the same way.

Irish Travellers do have privileged status as a minority ethnic group in Ireland.

There are very high levels of discrimination against Irish travellers (and Roma) in Ireland too unfortunately.

If you're working cash in hand and possibly (sometimes) on the fringes of legality in terms of health and safety, correct disposal of site waste and rubble, etc. I should imagine there's not much being paid by way of income tax, VAT, national insurance, etc.

Just wanted to say i know there are things about our culture that you dont agree with and that's okay!

Whats less talked about is gypsy people and very generous and extremely charitable.
Filling food banks every Christmas, bringing toys by the van load to chilrens hospitals, countless fundraising events and more.
And if someone in our community is in need the whole community bands together! Countless examples of this.

Yep.

My son attended hospital school and it would be impossible for it to be the same as regular school and that's without any terminal diagnosis involved.

Then there's SEND children who are homeschooled because the LA has failed to provide a suitable school place. I think if I was a parent of one of those children, I'd struggle not to laugh in their faces if they then came to me talking about the importance of education and trying to control how to home educate my child when they had already failed my child in the first place.

It is far from simple and that is before also considering roma/traveller children.

Four Roma boys in your grammar school? Is this a long time ago and where they on the Green card scheme? Some grammar schools did allow our kids in back then if their education was good enough.
The families may have chosen to move on, but when Green cards ended lots of families had to decide between schools, work, and way of life. The Green card gave education, but also protection for Rom families pushed off council sites by the arrival of Irish travelers who where directed en mass to long term Rom sites.
Those settled on them where mainly Romaninchal families, but other Rom also stopped if it worked.
The caretakers knew who was who and had made it work for all.

Rom site caretakers swiftly lost their jobs, and site standards changed.
LA's declared Rom racist if they didn't accept the new situations and said all Rom and Irish travelers had to learn to live with each other.
Most Rom weren't going to pay the increasingly high fees for the new standards and just moved off.
Some of the caretakers won at employment tribunal, but not their jobs back.

Not disrupting a child's education, allowed small Rom groups living quietly off sites, to fight eviction orders and their kids to stay at the schools they were doing well at.
When the Green card went, so did the funding for the schools, and the base school (often far away) got it all and the kids where ordered to go there and the families moved on.
Kids where often not told what had happened because the treatment was shameful.
It was an era of returning to old ways for many because the new ones no longer had enough value.

Women tell their daughters about it. Is it really so shocking for a parent to tell their own child rather than a stranger do it?

Why would boys need to know?