Political badges should be banned from NHS uniforms

[Ihatetomatoes]

New report says political badges such as Pro Palestine shouldn't be worn on NHS uniforms. It's led to increased antisemitism and fear amongst Jewish patients.

Also NHS uniforms not to be worn on protests.

This report makes a number of suggestions and in my opinion must be implemented. All political badges off NHS uniforms. No NHS uniforms on protests such as pro Palestine. It contributes to racism and fear.

The NHS should treat all patients equally and individuals political opinions shouldn't be pinned on their uniforms.

@PurpleThistle7 Would it help if I said it ‘hurts my feelings’

Yes that's much clearer.

I was respectful to individuals. I haven’t called you or any other posters names. You have been refusing to take on board anyone else’s view and that’s your prerogative. I don’t know whether it’s a refusal to understand or what. But that’s fine.

You call me disrespectful for quoting you when you have said you don’t want to engage. Yet you keep coming back at me. If I’m so offensive then feel free to ignore me - there are plenty of other posters with opposing views to you.

Because you are there to do a job. Provide healthcare. That's it.

So what if someone is Palestinian or LBGT, its the job that matters, not where they are from or sexual orientation or assorted gender choice. . Stop bringing your whole self to work and just do the job to the best of your ability.

Provide healthcare still within the remit of our personal boundaries and beliefs - We're still humans with rights. By your logic no doctors can conscientiously object to any procedures they're not comfortable performing?

The report into antisemitism in the NHS mentioned Palestine pins etc and said they cause problems and recommended they be banned.

I don't think its sincere to suggest that the distress caused by a political symbol is the same as a spider tattoo or blue hair. And we're not talking about banning one staff member from wearing one item in response to one complaint. We're talkimg about banning everyone that works for the NHS from wearing any symbol associated with a political or social movement which has been evidenced to cause distress. I doubt we'll come up with a comprehensive list on this thread but I don't agree that means the argument is invalid.

You don't have plenty of evidence that they have been able to do their job to a high standard while wearing these symbols, you have evidence that they have made patients uncomfortale enough that they've avoided treatment. The NHS should be investigating all reasons why someone would do that and seeking to address them. The behaviours of its own staff would be a good starting point.

I have no issue with people being told no political badges at work. Any work. But I'm interested in where you would stop? Rainbow lanyards have been mentioned. Poppy badges, of any colour, for Remembrance (war is a very political issue).... Part of me thinks let people wear them but then I know I'd bristle at far right badges. So is it more about what we believe than the person wearing them??

I was brought up Jewish and still have Jewish family and friends although I dont align with the religion now. I work as a doctor in a hospital and a lot of the staff wear Palestine flag badges and Free Palestine badges. I often feel uncomfortable when I see this. I can only imagine how they would react if I wore an Israeli flag. I wouldn't speak to these people about my background - i would hide it. I dont have a particularly pro Israel point of view but I find their badges hostile and slightly threatening. I try and just see it as a support of the Palestinian people so thats ok- but I agree shouldn't be allowed in health care as so politisized.

I think the rainbow badge is different as for me, it tells patients that I support them whoever they are. E.g. if I am meeting a gay teenager they may find it a source of comfort.

I think it is a sincere comparison, it's either about patients feeling distress and upset or it isn't. What one patient could be viewing as a political symbol could literally just be a flag from someone's home country, and there are other characteristics people could interpret as being an open statement or their beliefs. If we're gonna ban every item that is political or social you're also gonna have a fight on your hands telling the BMA and other union members that they aren't allowed to wear a pin or lanyard or their union. You're gonna have massive push back from military family staff not being allowed to wear poppies. All the staff networks that currently have dedicated network days or memorials etc for staff members where they have lots of big symbols related to that group aren't going to want to have that banned. At my trust for example we have a huge minora displayed outside for Hanukkah and Jewish patients, staff and others gather to attend. So now that's allowed but not the annual remembrance memorial where people wear poppies and lay wreathes?

I find the logic quite strange that because some patients might feel distress over something which can't be predicted, a symbol knowingly causing issues shouldn't be banned. I've already said a consultation should happen because there will likely be lots of other issues that are less publically known about.

I've never said wreaths should be banned and bringing in Hannukah seems disengenious because we're talking about symbols, not being able to practice religion (its a nice thing but I don't particularly see it as essential for the NHS to do). Nor have I ever proposed banning staff networks.

Based on your responses, I can't tell if you want the freedom to wear whatever symbols you like and don't care about the impact on patients, so are just trying to deflect rather than just saying this, or you are genuinely unsure how it would work in practice.

But in the NHS it is your job to 'support' someone 'whoever they are' in as much as you should do your job professionally irrespective.

Wearing pins or lanyards feeds into a narrative that those who do not wear them are unsupportive or 'unsafe' to use modern vernacular.

Why wear a rainbow lanyard and not a disability awareness one, coupled with a womens rights supporting one, plus an anti-racist, plus a support all religions, plus support atheism etc etc.

Based on your responses, I can't tell if you want the freedom to wear whatever symbols you like and don't care about the impact on patients, so are just trying to deflect rather than just saying this, or you are genuinely unsure how it would work in practice.

I don't agree with this, I've repeated multiple times I'm not totally against a ban of it was fair across the board but I genuinely don't see how it would be done in a way that wouldn't be full of holes for legal cases etc. you're saying it's a symbol known to cause offense, but the key part is to some not to all. It's also just a flag of a country, I don't see how you could say a flag of one country is known to cause offense to some so it has to be banned without that being discriminatory. Especially if someone examples are that it's so upsetting they literally can't be in a setting with one but even if you banned it for staff we can't police what patients wear for example. This is why I keep coming back to the key thing being behaviour and patients being supported when they're distressed and cared for, instead of over policing staff. It's hard enough working for the NHS.and we struggle finding staff. If we now say okay you get shit pay, shit working conditions and on top of that we're dropping all our diversity and inclusion initiatives well good luck keeping a workforce. This attitude of "just shut up and do your job" as though NHS workers are robotic servants isn't gonna actually bode well in practice.

its actually not.

There is a difference between a doctor or nurse responsible for treating you wearing something that is distressing or makes you wary of them, another patient does not have power over me when I'm vulnerable.

I think all flags should be banned. There is no legitimate reason staff should wear any flag. You obviously can't predict all patient responses but were there is a known issue there is no reason to ignore it because of hypothetical extremes.

Keeping a policy which harms patients is not an appropriate response to issues associated with NHS pay and working conditions. I also don't think everything to do with inclusio ln etc needs to be dropped, just things that could result in harm to patients (which just seems to be the pins and lanyards?)

I know I get that, I wasn't saying they're the same dynamic but if PP and her children can't be in a waiting room with one, it's still creating distress that she says means she would need to leave the building which is why I said even if you ban political symbols by staff you're still going to see many of them in hospitals, or any shares public space. I don't think it's as simple as banning the pins and lanyards either given many of the inclusion initiatives have a presence across site - LGBT network displays, a pride flag in pride month, we have a union jack flag flown, we have the memorial's eid, hannukah, other religious network celebrations in the middle of site viewable to patients. The NHS is multicultural and it's common to have heritage days with the hospital menu celebrating that, flags of the country or a steel drum band outside outpatients on a day in black history month for example. It would be one thing if this never happened and maybe I'd agree it would be simpler, but peddling back on a initiatives that celebrate everyone is hard to justify without sounding regressive and like we can't actually all love together and still treat eachother with respect despite our differences.

Its a lovely sentiment but I don't think there are any initiatives that do celebrate everyone, even if that's the intent?

There is too much division at the moment and picking one side is inherently seen as being anti the other. A neutral position would be better, particularly for something as important as healthcare where people don't have a choice about using it.

Well I see your point but I work with kids so think a rainbow can make a big difference to a child in distress who may feel safer just knowing they are accepted. None of these badges you mention are polarised topics- supporting women or disabled people is fine and wouldn't cause offence to anyone. The issue is some people use the Palestinian flag to be anti Jew or anti Israel which many Jews feel is the same as anti Jew.

Supporting women isn't polarised?!
Have you been following the legal routes women have been having to follow to keep single sex spaces?

I dont think a badge that shows support towards women (what sort of badge are we actually talking about here?) would automatically trigger me to think of the sex / gender debate - I would just think oh thats nice, this person supports women / cool badge.

Maybe your point is the old argument that if something offends you then it needs to be removed. Which is a bit of a sad state of affairs.

I think it would be a shame to have to take off the rainbow badges because they speak to a group of people who are sometimes vulnerable and I want to show support for them as a person who may be in a position of power. Im coming from the point of view of a doctor who sees lots of young people with mental health issues. I am also coming from point of view of someone who is not offended by the rainbow symbol.

Tbh I would almost rather keep the Palestine badges then have to lose all the badges that symbolise tolerance! I was more just agreeing in my earlier post that theyve always made me uncomfortable and I was glad to see it wasn't just me

Out of interest does the rainbow badge offend you?

Patients care is also a priority so therefore anything that intimidate them should not be worn
GC women and some lesbians for example

Wearing a non political lanyard wouldnt upset anyone
Its Therefore completely inclusive

We are discussing the guide though aren’t we
That’s the point of the thread

Offend? No.
(But unfortunately the rainbow badge has become tainted by the trans-rainbow which has been used to try to remove womens rights.)
However wrt the rainbow, I would expect all employees of the NHS to behave professionally and with care. By signalling with a badge that you especially care (about one specific group) you are leaving open the questions: do others Not care? & do you Not equally care about other groups?

Do you not feel women are vulnerable ?

Agree