To feel like I’m 13 again feeling excluded?

[ScullyD]

I decided to go back to uni as a mature student last year. I won’t go into detail in case of recognition but it’s something where at the end of it I hoped I might meet like minded people to set up a company with if I was lucky.

I met lots of people I get on with casually, but two in particular I hit it off with, Robin and Kay. We became close friends. A few months ago we had a group assessment and Robin asked me to work with her, Kay and 3 other women were friends with. We were all aligned on our pitch and got a high mark, and said we should make the idea a reality after graduation.

Now it turns out Kay and Robin have launched their own company doing exactly what I hoped and I’m gutted. Other people on the course sent lots of good luck etc messages to the group chat we’re on when they announced it and I noticed that none of the other women from the original assessment said anything either. So I’m assuming they also feel left out.

AIBU to question whether I want to remain close after this? Am I being pathetic? Maybe I’m being petty but it’s showed me we’re not that close and would’ve loved to be part of it. Unless I’m prepared to support them while being upset and leaving my pride out of it…

I’ll let myself feel the hurt for a minute then harden myself against it. They’re helping each other get on in the industry by doing this and have chosen to leave others behind. It feels calculated to me which is hard to ignore for ‘friendship’. Thanks for letting me vent!

If one of the founders has messaged for a chat (as I think you said a few posts ago) maybe they want to invite you to join?

I wouldn’t be helping them with the events you mentioned if that’s not the case.

@SoScarletItWas she wasn’t messaging about that.

the question is do I attend their opening event in a few months or not? I think it would look petty not to go (to them) and make my feelings crystal clear. Or do I go to give the impression of support to check it out…

You don't leave it until then to find out which bits of your IP they're using. I would message the woman you bumped into and ask her directly are any of your ideas being deployed because they need your permission to use your IP.

I wouldn’t go. When I was younger I always covered up my upset. You end up getting treated like a mug because people know you won’t do or say anything.

Now I would always be honest, every time. I’d reply to the message and say “I have to know, why were me and other woman left out?” and I would wish them well but not be hovering around and supporting them.

@OriginalUsername2 yeah. My concern is that by attending I’m saying I’m fine with it when I’m not and hiding the hurt.

At the same time I don’t really feel like giving them the satisfaction of knowing I feel upset - that is to say I no longer feel I can trust them, so now I feel like if I tell one person the rest will hear about it. But if I do ignore it and don’t attend, I’m saying I won’t support you and won’t expect your support in future either. So if I make that decision, I need to be happy with having all friendships end really.

There’s no need to be embarrassed about feeling shit about this. Anyone would. It’s a valid reaction. Personally I would have to ask so I didn’t wonder about it for years to come!

Now Robin and Kay know you know, they'll have to address it, or it would be weird otherwise. What are you going to say to them?

I don’t understand the whole course/business connection but you really need to step back and understand you don’t have a ‘right’ to be included in anything, it’s up to you to process and accept that.

I don’t blame you for feeling like that - you only have to see friendship threads to see that many women haven’t mastered this, well into middle/old age.

But for your own sake you need to step back. It doesn’t matter. Adult relationships don’t come with an obligation in the same way that we try to make school relationships.

@Passingthrough123 it’s already weird. They happily announced it not thinking me or the other person might be hurt by it. Where’s their self awareness?

I don’t think I want this group to know I’m upset and I don’t feel I can continue to have close friendships with Robin and Kay now. Standing there yesterday with the other woman telling me how exciting it all was made me feel stupid. I’ll feel a bit shit this weekend then pull myself together.

We are the main characters in our own lives. They may not have known you would be upset or they may have done it deliberately - who knows.

They aren’t responsible for you being so upset by this. You have to find a way to deal with this kind of thing for your own sake. Even if it was deliberate slight - so what?

I said before about children being made to include everyone even if they didn’t like them. And I really believe this is the result.

People often see the best in others which is lovely but (probably because I’m AuDHD) I have never found that to be productive. I make a judgement very quickly and stick with that.

Not everyone will be ‘kind’ to you. Some people will dislike you for apparently no reason. People won’t care for your feelings. Some will appear to be nice but be stabbing you in the back.

Now is a good time to come to terms with that and develop a way to accept that.

The other woman must've assumed they'd had the decency to tell you and I imagine she's relayed it back to them by now. I don't blame you for wanting to create some distance.

Definitely wallow this weekend, but do think about next steps. You haven't answered what a few of us have asked – are you going to find out what work of yours they've incorporated into their business and will you take steps to protect your IP?

@Passingthrough123 I think you’re right because she started off saying I’m really excited about this new venture etc as though I knew, and I said what do you mean? As I say, she looked sheepish telling me, which says something.

Well I’m assuming they won’t use any of my work for their business because that would be outrageous! I think I need to let it go for my mental wellbeing.

It would be outrageous – but if they've done this behind your back already, it's pretty obvious they're using it. Otherwise why the secrecy. I get why you want to let go for your MH, but think about it: if you don't question the use of your IP now, what happens if you try to launch a similar business? They could accuse you of copying them. I would definitely discuss it with your tutor to see what they think. It could be that the tutor asks them whose work they are using and tells them they shouldn't be using any other students' IP without their explicit permission. Then it's up to you whether you give it or not.

Completely absurd - it was neither inconsiderate nor bullying. Other girls would invite their closet group of friend for regular sleepovers and I wouldn’t complain or feel excluded.

Why is it bullying for me and my closest friends to have a little club that was probably inspired by some book or other we had read?

She was friendly with us but she wasn’t part of that friendship group. There were plenty of other girls she could have set up her own club with if that’s what she wanted.

We spoke about it in school, and there were no secret places to go and were like 11, so yes it’s possible that someone may overhear, but it’s not like 5 of us were sat on a table at lunch and 4 of us were in a club talking about it.

I wonder how some people even function if they can’t handle people in a class setting forming smaller groups? Absolutely no one else in the class was bothered or desperate to join our club btw.

Sorry I didn’t mean to tag you @ScullyD ! I meant to tag @Surreyblah

exactly. People will always come across others they don’t like or have anything in common with. Why it’s okay to force children to include those they don’t like blows my mind. It does lead to a lack of resilience as adults. You can choose to spend time with whoever you want and it’s fine not to want to include people.

But on here we get middle aged women agonising over why they aren’t included (and by extension, getting upset on behalf of their children because not everyone wants to invite their child somewhere, to the point of tackling brides for having child free weddings and expecting their kid to be an exception).

It’s fine to not want to spend time with people. Obviously it’s not ideal to be unpleasant unless there’s a good reason.

I work at a university in their enterprise section and part of the activities involve supporting students to develop their ideas into commercial businesses. Part of this is helping them set up companies and register the IP. The IP is always registered to the start up company, not the university. Often the university will invest in the company and take a shareholding in return, but they do not directly own the IP.

it would obviously be different in the case of employees developing projects on paid time, as they would have a clause in their employment contract that the IP re work done in the course of their employment is owned by the university.

Could be a number of reasons why, OP. During the uni course, who were naturally the leaders and who were the followers? Were they hands-on and heavily involved in all project steps and ultimately making the final decisions throughout? It sounds like Robin and Kay were likeminded and maybe if they drove the project more at uni, they didn’t want the passengers along for the ride when they took it to launch.

I think as it was a group project leadership varied. However I facilitated/managed the initial meetings and got positive feedback from a few members that I helped the process go smoothly. That was Robin and another woman who said that.

also my pitch idea was chosen by the group in a poll although Kay later spit the dummy saying she wanted to go a different direction (ie her idea wasn’t chosen but it was a democratic vote!). Really I have no idea but there’s nothing I can do now. I do feel there must be a reason that isn’t being shared.

And Robin was not hands on, in fact she tried to say she wanted to do most of the work by herself rather than as a group as she doesn’t like group set ups (she is quite shy). She can’t dislike them that much…she works hard but not preferred to do her own thing so setting up with the others was surprising.

Too many cooks for sure, but I will say that’s incredibly cheeky to be running with a business based off of the work of 6 people without saying anything to the very people that put it in the work and ideas.

It’s actually quite underhanded and has nothing to do with being tough in business. Have they asked if they can use the work you all contributed to this?

I would be pissed off more than hurt. Though I can understand why you’re hurt, but sounds like you’re much better off without them. I would confront them, or better yet beat them at their own game!

If this is genuinely something you want to do and the market allows start the same business. But as you’re an A student, yours would be better! Chin up, you can do it and are capable.

I would aim to launch before them - website, socials etc! Best of luck

I’d love to know what sort of business you’re talking about! And has the course finished now?

if it is really exciting and innovative, you can stay friendly on the sidelines and let them make their mistakes before you start something of your own as a competitor

If the pitch was your idea and you worked on it in the group, then you have every right to run with it yourself. Just as much right as they do. You are not required to attend their launch and pretend you're happy with what, from the sounds of it, amounts to having your work product stolen. Why not just start your own business doing the same thing. Given that you're the one with straight As, sounds like you could do a better job than them anyway?