To feel like I’m 13 again feeling excluded?

[ScullyD]

I decided to go back to uni as a mature student last year. I won’t go into detail in case of recognition but it’s something where at the end of it I hoped I might meet like minded people to set up a company with if I was lucky.

I met lots of people I get on with casually, but two in particular I hit it off with, Robin and Kay. We became close friends. A few months ago we had a group assessment and Robin asked me to work with her, Kay and 3 other women were friends with. We were all aligned on our pitch and got a high mark, and said we should make the idea a reality after graduation.

Now it turns out Kay and Robin have launched their own company doing exactly what I hoped and I’m gutted. Other people on the course sent lots of good luck etc messages to the group chat we’re on when they announced it and I noticed that none of the other women from the original assessment said anything either. So I’m assuming they also feel left out.

AIBU to question whether I want to remain close after this? Am I being pathetic? Maybe I’m being petty but it’s showed me we’re not that close and would’ve loved to be part of it. Unless I’m prepared to support them while being upset and leaving my pride out of it…

Cheeky bastards nicked the idea and ran with it. Of course they are still talking to you, they're probably trying to get ideas off you! Don't give them anything and start your own business up!!!!!

It depends what you mean by 'cutting off her nose' though. Personally for the reasons I outlined I would absolutely not feel comfortable joining the company now even if they asked.

Staying friends with them is slightly different, but again I would really struggle to separate the underhanded way they've gone about it from my feelings from them as people and how they value the friendship.

It would be different if they'd either spoken to OP directly and said 'Look we are thinking of doing X, we know you said you were interested as well but for [whatever reason] we want to stick with just the two of us for now," OR even if they'd just offhandedly mentioned it in front of her as it came up in general conversation, which at least would mean they weren't attempting to hide it from her.

But for her to have absolutely no idea until they announced it to everyone else, they must have quite deliberately decided between them not to bring it up around her, which, given she thought they were good friends, isn't great - to me it would say something about their general characters to the point where I wouldn't consider them to be people I'd want to continue to be close friends with, let alone share business liability with.

Of course that doesn't mean I'd throw a strop and refuse to speak to or work with them or anything, just that I'd mentally downgrade them in my head to coursemates rather than friends, and treat them accordingly.

Greetings Original Commenter 💚
Do you feel you could maybe, on a 1 to 1 basis let them know how disappointed you're feeling because you'd love to be included?
I recommended on a 1 to 1 basis so's not to draw the attention of an audience & for your own self respect & dignity 🫂 I know it would take courage to express your disappointments, but I'm wondering what could you lose by being honest, & you might even gain from your openess 🙏
Wishing You&Yours all the utmost very best 💚🙏💚

@latetothefisting everything you’ve said sums up how I feel! So yes I think you’re right I need to downgrade them to friendly course mates rather than proper friends as I thought they were. It makes me sad, I thought we were close but there is an underhanded mess about this.

I’m meeting up with other people from the course tomorrow. I don’t know them as well but I’ve realised I need to keep mixing with others and maybe I’ll be surprised.

I’ve decided I don’t want to discuss it with them. If that was worth doing and if I could expect a reasonable response, I don’t think they’d have taken this action to begin with.

How many were in the original group? 6?

Honestly who would want to start a small business with FIVE business partners? You would never decide anything!

That's just far too many cooks. And that might be all there is to it.

Also worth saying that some of my favourite colleagues to work with have been people I would never socialise with, and often my best work friends socially were the last people I actually wanted to be paired up with at work!

Not wanting to go into business with a friend doesn't mean you aren't their friend.

I would give em a cautious pass. You might end up in a better position for it now because they can make mistakes that you can learn from when you set up your business.

Robin and Kay look as though they set you up.in the group to pick your barain and get your knowledge and ideas

Shrewd operators ir a pair of users and takers!

I would n't bother with them again. But l would set up your own busuness maybe with the other women from the group.

Make sure that they are are trustworhy

You sound like real bright smart women l.

Go for it l;

Were Robin and Kay friends before you met them in the course, OP?

It’s literally nothing personal- it’s business.

Set up your own business and remember you will face stuff like this all your life so ignore and move on.

You have over emotionalised this so much. I’m beginning to understand why they went ahead without you. I know it’s hard but business is business, it’s not personal. You could have just taken an objective approach taken the emotions out of it, said you’d hoped to be a part of it and is there any way that could work for them. But you’ve made it so emotional

What steps did you take yourself to try to start up this business? If you weren't being proactive, I can't see what your beef is, really.

With kindness, I think this is more to do with those school emotions. I was excluded from a friendship group and it hurt like hell. 20 years later I'm still not over it and hyper sensitive. It stings but this is a business thing not a friendship. Was it a bit cheeky of them? Yes. But at the end of the day it was a student project not a fully formed business.

as others say, I would reach out ( if you can face it and possibly rejection) and ask if there's anything you can do.

If you are doing a course where it is likely you will all be doing similar, possibly competing, businesses, then you have to accept that you won’t necessarily be able to be more than casual friends with people on the course.

I doubt it’s a rejection as such but don’t do what others have suggested and pitch yourself to them. For whatever reason they didn’t invite you on board at the beginning and that’s their prerogative.

Focus on learning everything you can and doing as well as possible on the course and pursuing your business.

Sounds like they used you. Good luck to them they will probably fall flat on their faces since it sounds like it was your input that helped them get a high grade. You should definitely go it alone and be the boss. You don't need someone else.

Do you feel that they ‘stole’ your idea? Or did others on your course just have the same ideal?

i agree about the school thing. There are so many threads about friendship dilemmas on here. I think it’s generational to an extent.

There seems to be an emphasis on ‘being kind’ at school and letting everyone join in with your games even if you don’t like them (otherwise it’s ‘bullying’) and it leads to unrealistic expectations as an adult.

I am older and when I was at school we weren’t made to include everyone. People got left out but ultimately it’s an important lesson to learn that in life you dont always get included and that you just shrug your shoulders and crack on.

What Owly11 said above!

Years ago my neighbour copied my business idea - did the same products- the same website - everything (!) I was pretty pissed off about it, until I realised a year later that I was making a healthy profit, while her business basically flopped as she wasn't putting in the same hours or work on it at all. [shrug shoulders]

You never know how things will pan out.

Yep, they were defintely using you all. I'm sorry. Just forge your own way. These two are not to be trusted. Would you really want to be in business with them?

Yeah I am against actual bullying but sometimes schools get it wrong. I remember being 11 and in a class of 30. 4 of us wanted to set up a little club and one girl who was kinda friends with us but not quite as friendly got upset we weren’t inviting her to join and complained about us. The teacher ended up banning the group unless we invited her. Absurd.

I remember saying okay we won’t do the club then, everyone’s fun has been ruined. We’ll just do it outside school and the teacher was still pissed off.

OP, I feel the only concern I would have is if they were deliberately picking your brains to build up their own business, other than that I wouldn’t be bothered. And if Robyn approached you to ask you to join their group project that Kay was already part of, they probably always were closer to each other than to you.

Additionally they may well see you as a good friend. But you don’t necessarily want to work with everyone you see as a friend.

I’d just be a bit wary about sharing too many ideas with them at this point.

@Anarchy99 I think there's a difference from including everyone in games to exclusion as a form of bullying. When I was at school girls would turn on each other and ostracise one and other out of friendship groups. It was quite purposeful and mean. It's not just 'I went to her house and you didn't'. When you are a teenager and your friends turn on you it's the end of the world . Those scars run deep.

Anyone playing those games as an adult I would laugh at! And I don't think that is the case here. But I can totally see why OP is 'triggered' (I hate that word).

Well there’s an update: I bumped into one of the other women in the group tonight and in fact everyone else apart from one other woman is involved. She actually looked sheepish as she told me about it. I just said good luck.

feels like deliberate exclusion of me and the other person. Thankfully I ended the night with good friends and I’m planning to start something new with these people soon. But does the other situation sting? Yes, definitely.

Oh thats a bit different then - out of a group of six, four are involved in the business whereas you previously thought it was just two right?.

Yeah I’d be careful of them using my ideas in case the group is functioning as basically an extension of their business meetings!

I wonder what the other woman who isn’t involved thinks, could you find out if she’s been asked? If she was invited but declined that makes it a bit worse in the sense they deliberately only left you out.

I mean it’s tricky, I get it in the sense that you don’t want to work with everyone even if you like them.

However I feel they maybe shouldn’t have invited you to the uni project group, if they were going to combine most of the members with their business venture and just leave one or two out .

Four sounds like too many cooks anyway

I don't know what kind of business it is, but 3 partners in a small start up sounds like a nightmare to me! How had you invisiged it working if it was all 6 of you ?

@Timetowine yes exactly. And you know what? I’m kicking myself because other than Robin, this other woman asked me to be in a group with her and people I didn’t know well at first. I turned her down to be with my friends because I hoped that would lead to doing more together professionally later. Now they ARE doing that but leave me out.

it also makes me paranoid they’ve talked behind my back or something? Even if they haven’t, did they think about how this would go down and how a friendship will go now? One of the company founders messaged me earlier just to chat but I don’t even feel like talking to her. it’s left a bad taste in my mouth.