To think parents are not teaching any independence?

[MrBlobbysNuts]

A local parent group is in uproar because their precious secondary school children are apparently "too vulnerable" to get the bus before and after school without a phone (phones have been banned from premises entirely)

How is getting a bus for 15 minutes without a phone unsafe? Back in the day we just had ourselves and we survived. Give the kids cash and teach them to stop relying on phones to get around. The world is no more dangerous than it was 40 years ago, if anything it’s much safer!

I think you’re forgetting how far some kids travel for secondary school. They need phones for safety, to see when next bus or train is, to let parents know they’re going somewhere after school and not coming straight home etc. without that it’s all a bit of a nightmare. Schools of course can say no phones switched on or in sight at school but they’re on dodgy ground saying no phones on school journeys. I’d spend my life wondering where my kid was and calling the police instead of looking on 360 or seeing a message from them that they forgot they’ve got football/ revision or are going round a friends house.

There has been a dripping destruction of independence for kids. Overly safety conscious nurseries and schools teach parents by example to be overly cautious too. The physical skills and strength of young children has massively declined. Parents arrange play dates instead of kids just going out in the street and playing with friends freely unsupervised in the local neighbourhood. Or kids spend their time in parent organised activities. Parents expected to monitor what homework their kids have and when and then direct their kids to do it. When I was at school, you just remembered what homework you had and were responsible for that yourself. And I started working whilst studying at 16. Given the high rates of youth unemployment and greater minimum wage for 16 years old ( no such thing as MW when I was a kid, mind) I wonder how many 16 year olds work now.

This loss of independence is rubbish. I would not be even remotely surprised if it contributes to the poor mental health of so many young people. How can kids feel capable when they are brought up in a culture that teaches them they should be given no responsibility or autonomy or ability to sort out their own stuff and solve their own problems?

We used to get dropped off at a country lane junction 45 minutes walk from home, left, to wait for the bus. If it didn't turn up, you walked home. There weren't any payphones I can remember.

They can just have dumbphones? That's what my year 7 has. School removes phones for a week if seen and the parent has to come and collect, but more of the year 7s don't have one at all or just a brick. A dumbphone fulfils the same function as a phone box.

I agree, I had a Nokia 3410 at school - I could text/call but that was it pretty much.

And let’s go back to hard copy bus passes to enable this.

I remember phone boxes mostly in city centres, near shops, at railway stations etc. I don't recall too many of them in the suburban streets you'd walk home from school on. I never used (or considered using) one to call my parents and I didn't have a mobile till I was in sixth form!

Phones are useful on public transport granted, but we are talking here about the bus you get every day, not some trip to the other end of the country. And things like electronic departure boards at bus stops are much more common. Phones often aren't that helpful for real-time bus times in my experience anyway.

Sooner or later you have to learn that if a journey goes wrong or you get attacked you can't just call your mum for help. Perhaps better to learn these lessons in the relatively straightforward environment of your hometown at a young age than have them thrust upon you later in life.

How would she have received the information about the bus service? That was the important bit, having a hard copy of her school bus pass would have made no difference.

Gosh I had forgotten that! Our junior school had a little bed you would be tucked up in if you were sick until they could get hold of a parent to take you home.

A ‘concerned citizen’ posted in our village chat group a while ago. A boy had knocked on his door asking if he wanted his lawn mowing or any other odd jobs. The poster was concerned - ‘why is he looking for work at his age? Are his parents not feeding him? Aren’t they worried he could be knocking on the door of paedophiles?’

The lad’s dad responded, turns out the boy was 14 and trying to earn money to buy himself something he wanted, and they suggested he earn it by… well, doing some work. Like any kid would’ve 30 years ago.

I guess the thing was, you didn't get that info. Going back to when I was a teen, you eventually worked out that the bus wasn't coming and walked, or went back to the school who could then find out the information and you could make a plan from there (too far for me to walk home from school). That did happen a few times.

This is outrageous poor SS

The future is bright!

In my opinion it’s more than not enabling kids to be independent, it’s about the life skills that aren’t being passed on. Things like packing their own bag and thinking about what they may need, how to clean up after themselves, being left to play without hovering over them and directing the play, dressing themselves and manners. Just what I see daily in my job.

It’s also making parenting far less enjoyable.

The expectation that we now supervise our kids 100% of the time for at least a decade followed by another decade of intense handholding and lifts is so incredibly restricting it’s putting people off.

My parents had loads of time to watch TV, read and do housework as we played ‘out’

Connected to this, no problem solving skills. Inability to communicate to sort things other than online. Minor obstacles seen as insurmountable. Hugely inflated emotional reactions to the day to day rough and tumble of life. Not being able to sit with being uncomfortable ie finding something hard/challenging.

And then schools get blamed for not teaching them independence!

She does have a plan B and C indeed. I also print physical stuff whenever possible.However, why make life more inconvenient deliberately?

Yes there’s an awful lot of ‘what I did to entertain my child today’ on Instagram; with elaborate daily crafts and everything being set up.

Independent teenagers tend to have quite a lot going on besides school and the bus home. My son often picks up stuff from the supermarket for me on the way home, stays late at school for various reasons and goes out after school with his friends. It is useful to be able to contact each other so we can coordinate what we are all doing. I know that back in the dark ages we all managed marvellously without phones and cars and central heating but the world has moved on.

I agree, make life more convenient. It's only a problem when kids are lost not knowing what to do because their technology isn't working or their phone has gone dead or they can't find the info they are looking for. Problem solving skills that don't rely on phones are important.

YABU - payphones were common when we were teenagers so we could still call our parents. We were also all on a level playing ground as there weren’t phones even if people wanted or were allowed them.

I think the school should say non-smart phones only. So the old school Nokia type phones. Any sight of them at school and they’re confiscated for a week.

My DSS’s mum recently went ballistic because we let him and his friend get the train home from the shopping centre they had been in all afternoon. It’s a ten minute train journey, we talked him through what he needed to do, and we picked him up at the station our end. He is almost 14

This is absurd. Absolutely everyone but the girls from strict south asian immigrant families were going about themselves at that age when I was a kid. I walked two miles to my friend's house and we'd get the bus to the shopping centre and hang out there. This was normal.

Back in the day we just had ourselves and we survived. This is a low benchmark, but also ignores the reality of the school bus in the 80s/90s. Extremely common to witness or experience bullying, violence, verbal abuse and sexual harassment/assault.
I can understand why parents worry about the bus ride, it is often the wildest part of the day. Once in school, there's supervision.

My parents did similarly long walks very young alone to school and back and to the shops etc and they survived. However mobile phones were not accessible then like they are now, if they were then I am sure most parents would have wanted their kids to have one. There were many times my grandma was worried sick about a late return for whatever innocent reason happened. People didnt have them because they didnt exist and yes of course most were fine. But why reduce a child's chance for help or ability to tell their parents something...just because years ago...no one had them and therefore today's children dont need them?! Not many people had fridges way back then, or house phones or indoor toilets, why do you have one now? You can survive without it! Technology evolves and so does society's needs. Non smartphone phones are the solution. Not banning them entirely because 'we survived back in the day'.

Back in MY day, many of us didn't have landlines at home (my parents finally got one after I'd graduated university), so availability of payphones was irrelevant.

I was smiling at a recent thread where people described how often they phone/message their undergraduate kids (many every day). As we had no phone, I wrote a fortnightly letter home. My best friend at university did have a phone at home, but only rang parents on arrival at the beginning of each term and then did letters home.

Tbf the school hasnt been great (lack of school trips in general) but yeah I do think most of it is on the parents, my own DD was very shy and not very confident but we worked hard to improve this and she is loads better, she will happily skip onto that coach and be fine when shes away. I do worry what some of her classmates will do when they go to secondary, I dont think they will cope at all