To think actually some of it is about choices?

[Shdk136]

I’ve always tended to stand by the fact that everyone’s circumstances are different and you never know the entire picture so you shouldn’t judge. Especially where parenting is concerned.

However, something I can’t shake is how people actively choose not to expose their children to cultural experiences in favour of, well, crap.

Perhaps I am being a judgemental wanker and I’m prepared to accept that if that’s the consensus. But recently someone I knew from
a baby class years ago, her DD now 5, was invited to the theatre by a mutual friend and her mum declined it. They were free tickets as some people couldn’t make it. I later had a play date with this mum and she was telling me it was between petrol to get there (an hour drive) or compromising on her DD’s essentials tracksuit for an upcoming holiday. I thought she was joking. She wasn’t.

The thing is her DD is slightly behind in school (our dds don’t go to the same school so this is just what she tells me). I can’t help thinking that ok, she may simply not be as bright as the next child but surely this has something to do with what you choose to expose your child to? Do you think it makes a difference?

I know this is judgemental. My friend is lovely (otherwise I wouldn’t be friends with her!) but AIBU to think these sorts of choices go some way to shaping your child?

The thing is, OP never clarified if the friend does nothing with her child or is just this particular theatre experience that is the issue.

Like I said, I didn’t take DD to the theatre until she was about 12 I think, but we have been going to museums (and other places) since she was 2.

It’s ok to be discerning - if you want your child to grow up into an adult who loves theatre, seek out well rated productions by experienced theatre companies, that are suitable for their age.

Taking them to see something that isn’t decent is a waste of time, even if the tickets are free!

But that said, some free experiences are amazing. Our local museum does wonderful treasure trails for kids over the holidays and they don’t cost a penny.

This is too specific to matter.
One parent chose an expensive tracksuit over a trip to the theatre. This is hardly a common occurrence or a trend is it.
Thinking that missing out on going to the theatre somehow damages a child’s development is the most middle class thing I think I’ve ever heard.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s: single parent household, free school meals, no theatre, was never taken swimming, no cultural holidays (Scarborough once a year and that stopped when I was 12), no intellectual discussions - yes, my mother would get me the odd book when she could afford it - but I read voraciously using the local library. I have managed to become a fairly well rounded, degree qualified adult who takes an interest in things. It can happen.

I don’t think children not attending the theatre is the reason this country is on its arse. Race to the bottom because people have different priorities? So snobby.

My eldest has been to a west end show then a couple of smaller, child friendly productions at local theatres. Does that make him cultured enough? He’d rather be kicking a ball about in a new tracksuit anyway.

I'm wondering if the DM actually felt uncomfortable about going to the theatre herself and used the cost of the tracksuit as an excuse. It's a shame but there are people who think cultural activities of this type aren't for them.

As I pointed out upthread, this would been immediately obvious had the wonderfully cultured OP deployed a capital letter where it belonged...then has the cheek to talk about a 5 year old being 'behind'.😂

Depends on what the theatre was though. My DD would have struggled to hold attention for the course of a whole theatre show, we’d only just made it through the cinema without the ‘i’m bored’ comments at 5. She hasn’t actually been to a theatre show yet like a pantomime, and just about makes it through a sunday church service at 6. However she is very outdoorsy and active so a ‘tracksuit’ would probably have been a better investment short term. I consider myself a cultured person, going to things like museums and the theatre occasionally but also love travelling and holidays more so. DD, despite my efforts at museums and enrichment activities still likes active things like a trampoline park with friends above all else. 🤷‍♀️ She’s also got a reading and comprehension level above her age/class and is very much ahead academically so I don’t think the two necessarily correlate and what is encouraged at home (reading etc) is far more important.

I would’ve prioritised the holiday as well 😬

Although I am hugely supportive of theatre and the Arts and am absolutely passionate myself about seeing as many live performances as I can, a short cautionary tale about the long term significance of parental influence.

I have 2 DDs with a very large 10+ year age gap. I had my first very young and had little disposable income. Took this DD to shows only as once or twice a year treat; always had books and went to free things, amateur productions etc.
Far higher disposable income for second DD- took her to range of theatre including full length adult ballet from 6! Loads of galleries, London museums, exhibition. Probs
averaged 15 theatre outings a year over 9-10 years of her childhood.

Now both adults- 1st DD voracious reader, loves theatre, art etc. 2nd DD will only go to keep me happy as my birthday treat or something. Never goes herself with friends or her bf. Has read one book since she left school!!

You can’t really influence children that much imo

If she can’t afford petrol then her issues are a lot more dire than not exposing her child to theatre! I doubt most children have been to the theatre at that age or even twice that age. My kids have give to plenty of theatre, have been to lots of different countries and exposed to many different experiences. It has nothing to do with how well they eventually perform in school. And don’t forget a good book might be just as enlightening as a dozen plays or trips to museums.

Well more than I remember a lot of things. I remember my new dress for fifth birthday with more detail.

I understand that actually you begin to remember your memories so they become less reliable, but it’s the weird specifics that stick, isn’t it? Actors sliding down ladders they then carried offstage at a run at the BOV and my PRECIOUS HAT that I had picked the edges of to make it more, well, crappy looking, being blown off my head and away from the top of the acropolis forever. Windy up there.

Not to be a dick, but your post just comes across as precious and needlessly name-droppy, as you’re openly admitting here that you can’t actually remember any specifics about the Canterbury Tales or the Acropolis.

I'm on the fence about this. Partly because I'm a bit confused about what the reasons for declining the ticket were. Was it because she needed money for petrol or for a tracksuit to go on holiday? It sounds like the holiday was already paid for?

I don't think a tracksuit for holiday is essential and I do think a trip to the theatre would be more beneficial than an expensive brand name tracksuit for a child. So I'm with the OP on this but it feels like the mum may not have been totally honest about her reasons for declining.

I do agree that culture should be part of a child's education, and you can argue the point about whether that's a trip to the theatre or a visit to a football match but I do think it's a kind of reverse snobbery to say that no child needs to go to the theatre. Theatre really enhances our understanding of the world and a hard decline to do this in favour of buying a disposable item of clothing seems silly to me.

But I don't really understand what the mum's objections were properly and I suspect there's more to this than meets the eye.

I am sure we both know whether you are being a dick. 🤷‍♀️

Is your argument is that it’s a waste of time taking 5 year olds anywhere because they won’t be able to recite the play afterwards or draw the museum exhibits from memory? Because I have never changed in this respect.

”Openly admitting” - wtf? No crimes were committed in my viewing of plays or temples.

I find your comments snobbish and judgmental, and indicative of a rather sad antagonism towards things people who are not you might enjoy.

No, my argument is not about that.

My argument is that it just comes across as needlessly snobby and judgemental - and perhaps a little untrue? - to claim that you can remember being taken to the Acropolis and to Canterbury tales. And what’s the point of mentioning that if you can’t remember it anyway?

I think 5 year olds should be taken to the theatre, and to the ballet/opera/cinema/football/classical music concerts/bookshops/library. Absolutely. The more cultural experiences they can have, the better and more enriched their lives will be, even if they don’t remember it (because they probably won’t). I fully believe in giving them age-appropriate and fun cultural experiences a routine activity they will enjoy and learn from.

But taking your child to the Acropolis and the Canterbury tales at five? Pointless. And buying your child a tracksuit over taking them to a play? No harm done. Big deal.

Yes, some of it is about choices. But you are judging and you don't actually know the ins and outs here.

We didn't pay out for expensive things for the kids generally, but every now and then, there would be something that they really wanted, and, often as a reward for something, we might promise something special. I'd think better of the dm if she'd promised that to her dc if she then prioritised getting it, rather than changing her promise.
Or it could be that she was getting it second hand. A quick look in our area and I could get one for around £30.

For most people "I can't afford" = "I am choosing to spend my money on something else".
Whether that something else is essential food, or a treat, or getting something more expensive when they could get a cheaper version. We all make choices, and there will always be people who disagree, and people who agree with our choice.

How far were you asking her to drive 😆?

I wouldn't ever spend that much on a tracksuit and would probably have gone for a free theatre trip and bought one less holiday outfit if that was the choice.

On the other hand I do think there's a lot of pressure on parents to provide children with 'experiences' these days. There are lots of other ways to expose your children to culture without having to take them on expensive days out every weekend.