Can we talk about NEETs?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

Sorry if there's a thread already and I've missed it. But I want to talk about NEETs.

Apparently, we are potentially going to have 1.25million young people not in employment, education or training by the early 2030s. This is quite an alarming number, and it feels like we're failing an entire generation - both the NEETs themselves, who don't seem to have very much going on in their lives that might give them a sense of satisfaction or achievement, but also their working peers who will presumably end up having to support them via the tax system.

I really don't want this to be a thread with lots of judgement or criticism of these young people - it seems to me that we must have failed them somehow as a society. I also want to steer clear of party politics if we can. But I really want to understand why we have so many young people in this position right now.

Does anyone have a child in this situation who would be willing to share why they find themselves in this position? What are the barriers to them studying or getting at least a part time job? Are they happy with how things are right now? Are they trying to change their situation? What do they actually do all day? Are they surrounded by friends who are in the same position? What do they do about money? And what do you feel about the whole situation as a parent?

If anyone is willing to share, I really hope we can avoid a pile-on in which the young people and/or their parents are subjected to a character assassination. I would like an honest and frank exchange of views and experiences because I do genuinely want to understand the root causes of this issue, but if it descends into blame and fingerpointing, then the whole conversation will get derailed.

For full disclosure, I do have a dc in the middle of the 16-24 age group, but neither she nor any of her friends fall into this category.

There are multiple courses and skills based training, aimed at commercial agriculture and agricultural contracting. Course covers biology, plant and machinery operations, first aid and public safety but the main tickets to earning are the crop spraying and pesticide courses, which are given at the end of the course because with such tickets wages soar, even for 17 and 18 year olds. They are mostly farmers kids who have been driving tractors since their early teens. Then there are further options such as agronomy, right up to the M.Hort.

One of the other students wants to specialise in plant tissue culture and micro-propagation.

If you are getting unemployment benefit, do you get regular USEFUL guidance and direction from job centres? Is signing on still a thing? I was unemployed in 2016 and it was "find a job in your sector (accountant, manager, development) or we'll send you to interviews - get you a job (in an unsuitable environment for which I was not qualified but it's gets me off the lists).
Is there useful support and follow up for those on disability for conditions which may or will reasonably resolve?
Support for those with disabilities which allow some work ability?

If the state gives money to people who are not able to work or are not currently in work, does the state have a stakeholder interest in helping (not battering into submission) said people who could and should be an asset to the state?

So, pre-EU enlargement - before an influx of cheaper construction workers from Central and Eastern Europe?

Ds got a graduate role 2 years ago. He did a construction managment degree, coming out of covid there were no apprentiships, nor could he get a year in industry. He did have 6 years part time catering/ bar work. That go him his job. His company for 1st 12 months paid minimum wage but gave him a traing programme, and built up his skills. He now works hard but earns well as an assistant site manager. The company took on 20 grads his year i belive this year Im fairly sure he said it was 5. His degree was considerd micky mouse by some, he and all his course mates were emplyed in grade jobs within 6 months. I dont think his stem based sister will be as lucky the markets changed alot

The world has changed hugely.

My first job was in my mums office when I was 16. She was a council secretary earning 12,500 pounds per year.

There was a secretary 'pool' of a dozen women all serving the education department, Ed psych etc. All were on about the same salary (under 15k), all aged 30 to 60.

I remember 2 of the younger ones buying terraced houses in Crawley for about 35 or 36k. Just over double their single salary per year. They all had houses they owned. None rented.

Today, the secretary 'pool' is gone. All jobs gone. The Ed psychologists have laptops and do their own admin. Those houses bought for 36k in 1994, 1995, 1996 are now £295k.

Even if the secretarial jobs still existed, you'd need to be paid about £75,000 per year as a secretary to buy the same houses that those women bought, alone, 30yrs ago.

Find me an admin job paying that... Even one third that at 25,000 per year...

Doing the maths, the lives younger people had in the mid 90s are three times out of reach compared to younger people today... 'If' they could even get a secretarial job today.

The world has changed.

It's not coming back.

Housing is killing this younger generation.

And the cost of care, tbf is killing the very older people at £2000 a Week...

Yes, Clav - it was a joke. See the entire post which quoted someone who didn't think we had ever sent large numbers of workers to - checks notes- Germany.

Young people are still leaving, because the opportunities are reduced here.

Some won’t leave though as it’s not particularly easy to do, and the report covers some of the demographic feeling stuck here.

Jobs do still go to non-EU now over some of the kids stuck here too.

Yes he was a student at the college.

And even if he didn’t go there colleges employ people not just teachers. Cleaning, caretaker, admin, catering.

I think this is a really tricky subject. I have a daughter in uni, who is doing very well. She has a part-time job, which she has held for a number of years. She has seen how hard we have worked (and continue to work) to provide a nice lifestyle for all of us. She wants the same for her.

We have always talked in depth about different careers, routes in, the job market etc. We have offered help with CVs, interviews and work experience, with us and relatives/friends.

She has recently told us she is worried about finding a job when she graduates. However…she doesn’t do anything about it! Doesn’t take us up on offers of help, doesn’t act on suggestions of work placements and to apply early. Nods and accepts that she needs to do something, but just…doesn’t.

We refuse to do it for her. It’s heart breaking to see such a bright girl (far brighter with better qualifications than us!) have no get up and go, but at the end of the day she is an adult and very likely to become NEET in a few years. Or still working in the part-time job she got at 17.

Out of interest, was there a requirement to speak German for the position part-funded by the EU?

I think ours are going to leave.
I just can’t see a working life doing what they want to do here.

The other poster wasn't joking though;

There were always loads of construction workers from the North going to Europe to work.

I thought you had to be able to speak 2/3 languages to work at the UN. Our youngster is interested in UN as an organisation.

I know! I was agreeing with them.

Probably, in which case language skills are more valuable than an EU passport in this instance.

It’s still possible, and many are doing that, Brexit or not. Plus still jobs going to o/s young people.

Motivated yp will look elsewhere. The harder part is how to tackle it here, but most of all stop hitting the jobs market with onerous taxes. Plus likely some help to get yp in work.

I can’t answer from personal experience, @Quine0nline, but I have a friend who is registered blind (though she does have some vision). She has to attend review meetings at the job centre, and they send her jobs she should apply to. She was told to apply to a job that requires a valid driving licence - something she will never have, due to her vision loss!

There can only be three possibilities

1. UK nationals don't apply for the jobs. This is definitely sometimes the case for fruit and vegetable picking, care homes, waitstaff
2. UK nationals can't do the jobs. I tried to employ an apprentice to learn how to complete small business accounts, with a view to training them to be a qualified accountant. Not one person who applied (all UK nationals, of various ethnicities and social strata) could do any mental arithmetic at all, and every application was riddled with spelling and grammar errors)
3. Non-EU migrants are cheaper. They either don't know, or don't care, about minimum wage laws

I think that’s another big issue with tick box policies mentality. There is a lot of apathy and computer says yes/no , going through the motions, tick the box, meet the quota with no actual human interest or investment to ensure that it works /it’s successful. And then there’s a lot of wide eyed , faux innocence “but we tried! We don’t understand why it didn’t work!”.

It’s complicated.
gove changed the curriculum to more academic and less vocational
volunteer and Saturday jobs are so hard to come by which means you don’t fall into something, gain the experience and confidence that comes from them.

the feeling that you get one chance, and have to know what you want to do forever. There’s less changing of careers or just get a job until you know.

then there’s the pulling of the fantastic scheme Gordon brown put in place where similar aged job coaches supported you to find a job. They worked with local employers and placed people who had been skilled up for the jobs. It had an incredible success rate.

Germany are currently recruiting apprentices for things like construction and mechanics from India.

The role of the job centre changed under tories from actually helping people find jobs to benefit management

Back in the 60s, my mum was a Youth Employment Officer - her job was about advising and assisting school leavers into employment - maybe we need to bring that job back.

Apprentices or workers with skills?

Too many parents aren't willing to actually parent, and expect school/the government/"someone else" to do it for them. Children don't magically become adults without a lot of effort in showing them how to do it. I think a lot of people just think it happens on its own
This thread alone is identifying them well! One poster suggested cutting grass at the weekend and got jumped on.

It's not just about cutting grass for £20. It's learning to be confident to go and knock on doors despite getting mainly refusal...until one says yes. It's organising their diary. It's learning social kids in a professional manner talking to clients. It's negotiating a price. It's learning to chase if they haven't paid...and much more.

So many skills to be learnt that are valuable for any jobs. But what hope does a young person is told by their parents that it's a waste of time. The same parents who will cite every excuses in the world why their kids don't have those skills naturally because of x,y, or z, and it's everybody else fault but theirs.