Can we talk about NEETs?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

Sorry if there's a thread already and I've missed it. But I want to talk about NEETs.

Apparently, we are potentially going to have 1.25million young people not in employment, education or training by the early 2030s. This is quite an alarming number, and it feels like we're failing an entire generation - both the NEETs themselves, who don't seem to have very much going on in their lives that might give them a sense of satisfaction or achievement, but also their working peers who will presumably end up having to support them via the tax system.

I really don't want this to be a thread with lots of judgement or criticism of these young people - it seems to me that we must have failed them somehow as a society. I also want to steer clear of party politics if we can. But I really want to understand why we have so many young people in this position right now.

Does anyone have a child in this situation who would be willing to share why they find themselves in this position? What are the barriers to them studying or getting at least a part time job? Are they happy with how things are right now? Are they trying to change their situation? What do they actually do all day? Are they surrounded by friends who are in the same position? What do they do about money? And what do you feel about the whole situation as a parent?

If anyone is willing to share, I really hope we can avoid a pile-on in which the young people and/or their parents are subjected to a character assassination. I would like an honest and frank exchange of views and experiences because I do genuinely want to understand the root causes of this issue, but if it descends into blame and fingerpointing, then the whole conversation will get derailed.

For full disclosure, I do have a dc in the middle of the 16-24 age group, but neither she nor any of her friends fall into this category.

I beg your pardon? I'm trying to understand terminology that's new to me.
What insult are you imagining?

No it’s under 25s and no not necessarily a slacker either. The is a real issue of a hugely shrinking job market. AI is already being to slash jobs left right and centre.

Going to university is massively expensive with no guarantee of a job afterwards. There are fewer and fewer apprenticeships as there is little to no incentive for employers to offer them. Particularly after the NI employer contribution increases.

It’s a tough job market out there just now.

My friend has three kids in their 20s.

• One works two days a week and is looking for a FT job in an area she has no experience in.
• One has a job and they cut back his hours to two days a week. This is his dream job so he’s hanging on in there to see if they increase them again. His mum is subsidising his rent.
• One isn’t working at all. She’s living rent free with family and has decided she needs a mental health break.

Things that are different to e.g. 20 years ago:

• 2 of the 3 have autoimmune illnesses.
• 2/3 identify as neither male nor female
• They all seem to have a sense of entitlement that I don’t think my generation (gen x) had. They believe they’re entitled to a year off work, or a job they want (as opposed to taking any job to pay the rent)

I'm not surprised at the 1 in 6 figure. In a class of 30 that would be 5 children and most classes already have a greater number than that of children with SEN and additional needs. I've worked in classrooms where a third of the children need extra support in one way or another.

Add in the lack of social interaction away from social media and social anxiety, I'm honestly surprised it's not higher.

Err perhaps the fact you decided to call them slackers?!!! 🤷🏻‍♀️

@MsAmerica what did you mean by slacker if not as an insult

Thanks. Surprised that "young" isn't incorporated it. From your post, I get the impression it's a newer term.
I just heard some insane statistics about the unemployment of American men, who are now less likely to be employed than women!

As a former employment advisor working on NEET contracts, the best advice I can give is volunteer! Most young people don't want to, as why would they want to work for no money, but it's often the gateway to a career and builds valuable life skills and confidence. Volunteering doesn't just mean a charity shop, you can volunteer in pretty much any sector around - social media, admin, I.T, mentoring...and once you're in the organisation, you'll be shortlisted for any paid vacancies that come up. It's not JUST neets, anyone who's had an absence from the workplace or is looking to transition into another industry, I'd recommend it to.

You’re clearly being facetious.

Referring to people who can’t find a job as ‘slackers’ is judgemental, ill-informed, and crass.

I have two nieces ( sisters) . One has dropped out of Uni ( MH issues) and says she doesn't feel she will ever hold down a conventional job, the other has said she does not feel she can ever work full time due to burnout !

I am pensioner age now, but I do sporadically do searches on the Govt Find a Job Site, just in case there is something of interest. In just 2 years, the number of jobs available in my town on that site has halved.

NEETS is a bit more than not in employment, education or training.

It also means, not claiming benefits.

It was originally introduced as a way to skew data on the unemployed. The government of the day (I think it was Labour) didn't include NEETS in their unemployed data.

That's why it's a separate category to simply unemployed.

I fall just outside the 16-24 age group. Currently holding down what is considered a ‘good’ job but only managing 3 days a week and likely to rely on some UC for childcare topups for the foreseeable future.

At risk of being called a snowflake/entitled, I have spent 10 years fighting not to take my own life everyday and I would say maybe 1 in 3 of my peers have/had similar thoughts or attempts on their life. I am constantly on the edge of losing it so I find myself falling apart at normal office dynamics. People like to criticise ‘mental health’ as an excuse but for many of us, the reality isn’t just feeling abit worried, it is actual risk of self harm.

I do believe there is a lot of undiagnosed ND and that social media is a huge huge contributor. Any help I have had has to be paid for privately because the NHS waiting lists are crazy and, honestly, without consistent therapy which I can’t afford, I just fall back into old thought processes based on trauma.

I know people like to argue that all these mental illnesses didn’t exist when they were younger but there are plenty of adults holding down a job and ‘contributing to society’ while abusing their partners, abusing drugs or on stress leave. I do think there’s a shift in attitudes to ‘getting on with it’ whether thats a good or bad thing I don’t know.

edit: have just seen the term doesnt include those claiming benefits but do believe it still applies to those being funded by parents

I think social awkwardness has not been helped by the COVID / lockdown years which made many young people more cautious. They also lost out on many experiences that would have developed their life skills e.g. school trips, social activities. Plus of course the months being at home instead of being in school. Even when schools reopened, it took a while for many activities and trips to start running again,

DS still complains about how he never got to do food tech at secondary school due to Covid! Obviously we teach him to cook at home but it’s different learning with your peers.

DS is immature for his age partly due to his physical issues but also partly due to lack of social interaction (we do try).

I was a socially awkward teen but I didn’t have a screen to hide behind so had to overcome it.

Yes, to this.

Anything that shows you are reliable, you turn up when you say you will, you can present yourself as clean and tidy, you are polite, can follow directions, get on with co-workers - these are the things that employers are really interested in.

Plus volunteering is a great thing to do anyway just for personal interest and development. I think everyone should do it if they can because you can pick something that you're interested in and learn more about it. And make connections.

I agree

I have a 22 year old and a 19 year old. The oldest did well at school, 2 year diploma with distinction at college, and was in full term employment before they were 18.
They are confident and career driven and they earn more than me. Uni is talked about each year but at the moment money is more important.
The youngest's journey has been so difficult, despite us bringing them up exactly the same.
They have 3 rare congenital vascular related diseases and a recently diagnosed heart condition. They're also waiting for an autism assessment. Their conditions have caused them to become depressed and anxious.
They barely attended year 11 but they passed all their GCSEs, but became so ill we had to delay year 12 to the year later.
They have just passed a Level 3 Diploma and I'm so proud of them as it hasn't been easy.
I would love them to go straight to uni/full time work and we encourage them to do so, but realistically in the very near future they will require complex, invasive surgeries and will be very poorly and the recovery will be long.
I have no idea what will happen after that, but as the conditions are chronic and can't be fixed even with treatment, I think we'll be supporting them financially for a while yet.
We've never claimed DLA and they have not claimed PIP even though they are eligible, as we don't want to burden the state but this may have to change as her expenses for her conditions continue to grow.

So from my perspective I feel I had a sheltered upbringing...

...but that I mean I wasn't even actually aware benefits existed until I was about 21. 😬

For context, to my knowledge (at the time I've subsequently had some... realisations) nobody in my family has ever claimed benefits bar possibly my dad who may have briefly been on JSA between jobs (but not long enough for us to notice?).

I was always brought up with the attitude of...you work. Hence why I at 16, and two of my siblings from 15, had part time jobs.

Now personally I've struggled with my mental health since I was 11 (self harm from aged 12 and first attempted suicide attempt 15). But that was in my parents opinion definitely not a reason not to work..I mean hell the suicide attempt I just mentioned? Yeah I was supposed to be in work the following day-and you bet I got sent to work and told that wasn't a valid reason not to be 😬 (my supervisor at said job was the one who actually expressed any concerns over my quite obviously unstable mental state...). And in fact when I went to uni, the UCAS form asked if you had any health issues or disabilities. My mother categorically said under no circumstances say you have .a mental illness. So I didn't l. (And then non surprisingly had a compete mental breakdown at uni in large due to lack of any support 🫠)

So Its almost alien to me that any parent these days just suggest to their kid that they "sign on". Like v2n back when I was younger if that had been presented as an issue it would have been stressed that "this is temporary until you get a job".

For me this lack of knowledge personally did backfire as I unfortunately did find myself after my last major breakdown and suicide attempt to need support from the welfare system. Christ I remember walking into the JC for the first time ever after if lost my job after trying to kill myself that I knew nothing of how it all worked...I didn't even know my national insurance number (which anyone who's had to dwla with DWP by kwo probably knows off by heart!)

In a slightly weird way not so much in terms of benefits but more had I known 20 years back that with disability I could have been working part time and been supported would have helped. I didn't know that was an option so obviously worked full time which is what led tome almost dying. I that respect I wish I'd know there was support so I could have potentially worked part time to begin with a land built myself cup to full time work , as opposed to going straight into full time work which ultimately was not sustainable and ultimately is what led to me having said breakdown and only being able to work part one since that.

It really does work. I actually became an employment advisor through volunteering. Was put through my ERS and careers guidance qualifications, all for free, and gained hands on experience which enabled me to transition into a paid role. I can't recommend it enough. The charity sector is far more open to recruiting those with disabilities / mental ill health and offers a more supportive environment too. Peer mentoring is a huge initiative right now and more government contracts are about to be released which will offer those with lived experience of mental ill health/ disability the chance to find paid work in supporting others going through similar problems.

I think a lot of these are spot on.

There are some really serious issues, including the numbers who seem to have serious depression. I suspect being chronically online is a causative factor with this. And even the way they are being taught about mental health, for example, many seem convinced that being anxious and depressed should mean being supported not to go out, not to work, when that almost always actually improves things.

But the lack of experiences for all. Safety culture has been hugely detrimental to these kids. Not being allowed to wander alone, have free time. Making it impossible for them to have jobs when young. Thirteen and fourteen year olds having babysitters at an age when previous generations would have been babysitting themselves, or doing a paper route, or helping in a shop. The number of parents still managing their children's lives into their early 20s, in terms of things like making appointments, is shocking.

Mobile phones are a factor with this too. As much as people want to tell themselves they are only for when it is necessary, the fact is that it is a totally differernt experience having to navigate life out and about when you know that you have to figure things out, or ask for some help by interacting with a bus driver or someone at an information desk. And now we even have parents using them to track their kids.

It's done a number on these young people who are going out into the world at a developmental/experience level that would have been low for a 12 year old Gen X person.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5533486-really-interesting-report-on-neets-what-do-you-think-happens-next?page=3&reply=152499411

This is a thread that is still running.

I suppose the question here is why do they think anyone, even their parents, should support them to not work like this? And why do the parents do it?

So what would be the alternative? Let them starve or become homeless?

I agree that they shouldn’t be fully-funded to live a life of luxury if they are fully capable of working. But you don’t think it’s reasonable to financially support your own son/daughter until they can get a job even if they have mh issues?

My ds was NEET for 2 years after walking out on his A levels due to his physical & mental health, he was at breaking point, had considered taking his own life. School offered no support, they were only interested in grades & never took any notice of the point that he was drowning despite me contacting them several times because I was so worried about him, frankly it was a relief the day he decided he was done & wasn't going back. He didn't sit on his backside at home afterwards, he got involved in things that interested him, he was made a trustee for the Young Carers charity that had supported him since he was 8, worked as a Social Media Manager for a candidate for the Regional Mayor Elections, got more involved with local politics through the Green Party as well as being a carer for me & his dad. 2 years later he got a place at University to do a Foundation Year & a degree in Urban Studies & Planning. He smashed the foundation year coming top of his course & has now completed his first year of his degree, he has just been elected as a Councillor for our local area. Just because these young people don't do everything on the normal pathway doesn't mean that they will fail, sometimes they just need to think outside the box.

I have a nephew who is one I suspect he will never get into any type of education or employment. As to why he ended up like that I'm not really sure but his parents make no effort to encourage him to do anything at this point as sometimes he gets violent.