Can we talk about NEETs?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

Sorry if there's a thread already and I've missed it. But I want to talk about NEETs.

Apparently, we are potentially going to have 1.25million young people not in employment, education or training by the early 2030s. This is quite an alarming number, and it feels like we're failing an entire generation - both the NEETs themselves, who don't seem to have very much going on in their lives that might give them a sense of satisfaction or achievement, but also their working peers who will presumably end up having to support them via the tax system.

I really don't want this to be a thread with lots of judgement or criticism of these young people - it seems to me that we must have failed them somehow as a society. I also want to steer clear of party politics if we can. But I really want to understand why we have so many young people in this position right now.

Does anyone have a child in this situation who would be willing to share why they find themselves in this position? What are the barriers to them studying or getting at least a part time job? Are they happy with how things are right now? Are they trying to change their situation? What do they actually do all day? Are they surrounded by friends who are in the same position? What do they do about money? And what do you feel about the whole situation as a parent?

If anyone is willing to share, I really hope we can avoid a pile-on in which the young people and/or their parents are subjected to a character assassination. I would like an honest and frank exchange of views and experiences because I do genuinely want to understand the root causes of this issue, but if it descends into blame and fingerpointing, then the whole conversation will get derailed.

For full disclosure, I do have a dc in the middle of the 16-24 age group, but neither she nor any of her friends fall into this category.

This is an interesting thread.

I feel the work has changed and the UK is a mess with no stregegy from successive governments about the next generation and their lives.

As 1 poster has said, 'all in' full time minimum wage is 28 to 30k for a company. I class this as A Lot.... A lot to emplog an 18 or 21 yr old, for sure.

Yet, banks lend 3.5 times salary for a mortgage, so in this case 3.5 x 30 so £105,000. Per full time employed person.

Now my motivation for full time working was independence when I was 18. Freedom to make my own choices, my own life, using my own money.

Today, if you watch homes under the hammer, 105k buys you nothing, nowhere. A ruin in South Wales, full of rot, maybe just. Subsidence. People are in bidding wars over dumps.

So a couple on 2 salaries can by lent £210k. Still, in the south and south East, that gets just about nothing. In London, nothing. If a property is estimated that cheap, it sells 50k more every time. Every time. Dispiriting.

I understand these are numbers for starter jobs, but employers are already struggling to pay 30k. Five years later it may be 34k this person earns. It's not enough. Not close. Even 40k.. To buy any kind of home where most grad jobs are.

Near me, there are thousands of new build boxes going up, 2 or 3 beds starting at £399,500... A young, graduate couple are barely 60% of the way there to buying one.

Then motivation no 2 comes into play.

I wanted a family. How on earth do people begin a family when they rent rooms in shared flats at £1000pcm in London. They can't borrow enough for a homes under the hammer house and they pay 11% more 'tax' on their salary via student loans when they are earning not enough for a rotten studio with dry rot and mould.

Rents correlate with new build prices, indeed there's almost nothing to rent as well and what there is is extortionate.

The societal 'norms' I witnessed are gone. If you work full time doing anything, especially as a couple with 2 incomes, you should be able to have a decent home, either to rent or buy. That's not possible now. It's very unfair on the young. A single person, single graduate, is stuffed. Utterly stuffed.

I do want to add another thing... I do feel the generations are polarised and don't look out for each other. The nest egg flats bought by the elderly couple in the 1990s at 45k each, they now want to charge the young couple full market rent of £1700pcm, despite any residual mortgage payment being 300, 400.... They want every penny, and some, knowing the young have no choice.

The young people think why bother contributing so much, working so hard, to pay taxes to pay social care for a legion of other elderly people? Council tax revenues plummet, where 75% of this money would have gone on the elderly. The young people work pt, universal credit etc, and need huge discounts on the council tax.

I'm sad for the young. They are being robbed on the interest to student loans. They are being robbed blind on housing. They are being stunted by brexit and opportunities I enjoyed overseas. Plus social media is full of BS which makes them feel awful.

From someone who remembers cheap cars, 55p!/litre petrol, full size mars bars at 30p and rows of decent terraced houses for sale in Crawley at 40k each.. I'm the 1990s when "zig a zig ah" was the thing...

It wasn't long enough ago for this amount of financial change and increased challenge... X

We didn’t have to when we were in the EU because of our very good position which we don’t have now. An EU passport would open a lot of doors in IT and uni is so much cheaper in the EU with English speaking options,2 of my dc would have happily of gone to uni in the EU. I suspect many more would now considering the loans fiasco.

The loss of money from Brexit, impact on GDP, firms leaving and loss of opportunities is contributing towards this.

I think the army had its issues...

There have been awful bullying issues at deepcut, sexual harassment of pretty 19yr old girls leading to their suicides.

Army accommodation is scarce and squalid.

Then, once your about 38, unless you are an experienced officer, your days as a squad fie are done... You may have driving qualifications etc, but once ddmobilised you are no longer the army problem... Lots of veterans unemployed, drink and depression problems.

Army Pay isn't enough to buy a property any more until you are Captain on 45k in rank. V few get to captain.

The UK likes getting it's nose in on other people's wars. There is a significant chance of death or injury.. Or freak events like being attacked like Lee rugby in the street.

As a 'career', the army is fleeting.

The future, see Ukraine, is drone operators. Civilians recruited when we are at war. Not civilians needed full time round the clock now.

Hence, the army is tiny.... And getting smaller by the day, contrary to PR spin.

EU membership wasn’t just about freedom of movement it is also about investment

On the day of the vote an 18 year old, in a northern town, said “what has the EU ever done for me?”
standing in a new access road in front of a new 6th form college built with EU allocated funds. “faceplant”

The EU dictated if you like that investment was made in the most deprived areas. Did anyone around there think the UK Government would continue to do the same?

I agree it’s not looking at the reality for the dc missing out on jobs in places you mention.

And what should be done then ? Successful countries faced with a problem, resolve it. Quickly. What ideas do people have ?

Did thar 18 year old go to sixth form though ?Many dont so his question may very well have been valid.

Some of the things that worked in the Netherlands, one of the countries with the lowest levels of NEETS.
The Dutch system incentivizes employers to hire young workers by scaling the minimum wage according to age. Workers aged 15 to 21 earn a legally mandated fraction of the adult minimum wage. This makes young people highly employable and mitigates employer risks when taking on inexperienced staff. Dutch education policy legally requires all young people under 18 to obtain a "basic qualification" (at least a senior secondary vocational degree or a general secondary diploma) before they can leave school. This prevents early dropouts from floundering in the job market. The country places a heavy, positive emphasis on vocational training (known as MBO). These programs are heavily integrated with local industries, ensuring that the skills students learn actually match employer needs, resulting in highly successful school-to-work transitions. Part-time employment is deeply normalized in the Netherlands, even for students. It is very common for teenagers to balance schooling with part-time roles, keeping them connected to the labor market from a young age. Dutch municipalities (gemeenten) are legally responsible for tracking young people who leave school without qualifications. Through active labor market programs, they reach out to disconnected youths directly to offer personalized counseling, wage subsidies, or direct pathways into work or further training.

Sweden:

Administered by the Swedish Public Employment Service (Arbetsförmedlingen), this initiative ensures that young adults (typically under 25) are offered a tailored job, traineeship, or educational program within 90 days of registering as unemployed. Higher education in Sweden is generally free for citizens and permanent residents, removing massive financial barriers. Additionally, robust student grants and low-interest loans (via CSN) incentivize young people to pursue post-secondary studies rather than entering the workforce unprepared. Many Swedish municipalities have specialized interdisciplinary youth teams that identify vulnerable young people and provide targeted social, psychological, or career support to prevent them from slipping through the cracks. The boundary between work and education is fluid in Sweden. Adult education (Komvux) and vocational training allow young people to easily return to education if a first job falls through, preventing long-term stagnation.

Germany:

• The Dual Vocational Training System (Duale Ausbildung): Rather than forcing a choice between academic study and unemployment, Germany's apprenticeship system bridges the gap. Young people split their time between on-the-job training and vocational schooling. Because the state and industry heavily fund this, apprentices are paid wages during training and are frequently hired directly by their companies upon completion. 1, 2, 3]
• Targeted Early Intervention: Local partnerships called Jugendberufsagenturen unite child and youth services with job centers. They act as a one-stop shop to identify students at risk of falling through the cracks, offering career counseling, language support, and mentoring to ease the transition from school to work. 1, 2]
• Cultural Focus on Applied Skills: Unlike regions that stigmatize vocational trades, Germany highly respects skilled labor. A deep bench of specialized trades ensures young people find stable career paths right out of secondary school, preventing long periods of inactivity. 1, 2, 3]
• Strong Labor Market Protections & Trainee Quotas: Large enterprises and the German Mittelstand(SMEs) work closely with labor unions and chambers of commerce to consistently offer training spots. This guarantees that the supply of young labor aligns with market needs. 1]

Slovenia:

High Educational Participation: Slovenia has exceptionally low rates of early school-leavers (around 5%). The state provides heavily subsidized, often free, public education, encouraging young people to remain in school, vocational training, or university rather than dropping out. 1]
The Youth Guarantee Scheme: Backed by EU initiatives, Slovenia's Employment Service provides targeted active labor market policies. This scheme ensures that young people are offered a job, apprenticeship, or further education within four months of becoming unemployed or leaving formal education. 1, 2, 3, 4]
Extensive Vocational Training & Dual Systems: Slovenia's educational framework aligns closely with its industrial needs. Strong vocational and apprenticeship programs allow youth to seamlessly transition from school directly into trades and manufacturing.
Student Labor Market ("Študentsko delo"): A unique feature of the Slovenian economy is its legalized student work system. It acts as a massive, informal stepping stone, allowing students to gain paid, part-time work experience while still in school, building their resumes and preventing them from becoming isolated from the workforce.
Strong Social Safety Nets: Generous family policies, housing assistance, and welfare mechanisms ensure that youth are not easily left behind or completely detached from society, significantly reducing the "hidden" (unregistered) NEET population. 1, 2, 3]

All these countries have consistently low levels of NEETS. You can see the similarities in their policies and why and how they work.

Ironically , none of these policies involve “sink or swim”, cutting benefits , ignoring mental health issues or other disabilities and all the other suggestions made on here and the other thread. But no one wants to hear that.

All of the above sound good. I would also incentivise employers to recruit British youth ahead of people from overseas. They do that in South Africa where local people must be recruited before employers can consider foreign nationals. That won't always work but I think its a good principle.

It’s not without its problems absolutely, but some of these issues are not unique to the army. Rates of suicide, depression alcoholism and drug taking, particularly cocaine, is high in the corporate world and try buying/renting a property in London or South East as a person low down the corporate ladder.

Anyone in any job and from any walk of life could lose their life in a freak accident.

I feel I need to add a caveat that I don’t work for army recruitment 😊

The Milburn Report actually did state that (im)migration isn't a factor.

The think tank findings now seem to be circulating which uses rather contested data. This is the Think Tank run by Ian Duncan Smith so have to wonder how impartial it is or why it chooses this week to nudge immigration as the factor.

Concerning times for sure. What society expected was going to happened when values and education are coming from tik tok.
I would be flamed but I rather deal with a robot than with some young people in customer service jobs. There is not much difference. I can’t be bothered with people who don’t want to do their job. I hope they sack all the ones who shouldn’t be there and hire the best in this difficult times. At least we should have the best of the pool.

I didn't say it wasn't but the implication they can all fall back on the army as if you can walk into that was what I was challenging. My university educated DS is yet to pass a sift.

Hmmn. Natural assumption. Maybe question your assumptions? The term slacker, in case it needs spelling out here, has connotations of someone who doesn't try hard enough. That in itself is a judgement. The whole thrust of the current debate on NEETs is that there just aren't the opportunities there, no matter how hard the young ones strive.

I was not young 30 years ago, as you suggest - read my previous posts. The world hasn't changed that much (since I was young, or 30 years ago), and a lot of these were changes that we asked for. I've seen countless people on here lauding the increase in the minimum wage and greater NIC contributions. And I completely see the benefit of that, but why, oh why, can the majority not recognise that everything is a balance; as the minimum wage and NIC end of the see saw swings up, the "job availability" end swings down.

You also seem to forget that many other generations have lived through difficult times when jobs were seriously restricted. To name a few: the early 1920s, when recorded unemployment exceeded 20% (though measured differently than it is today), early 1980s (c. 14%), late 80s (7-8%), early 90s (back over 10%), the credit crunch 2008-2011 (rates over 11% at times), Covid etc. This one is a little different from some of those because it is self-inflicted, but the idea that this is an unprecedented event of misery for young people is bunkum. We collectively chose what we wanted, and this is part of what we wanted. Why are we carrying on like ti is some sort of unexpected disaster?

I know a young person who did a degree in criminology in the UK. They moved to Vienna after uni with a dream of working in the UN office there. They were lucky to have an Austrian friend whose parents took them in, and an EU passport from an Irish family member. Within a few weeks they had an internship at the UN (they advertised for these often, and they are part-funded by the EU) and in September are starting a paid role and will be a high earner in a few years.

without the EU passport she’d have been stuck in the UK, probably trying (and failing due to demand) to get some police or civil service role for 30k.

I’m so happy my partner is an EU national and that the baby we are expecting will have an EU passport

They don’t only sound good, but they work. With a long term track history. However, like I said, people don’t want to hear that. It’s all about how shit the younger generations are , cutting benefits. When I gave these examples on the other thread , I was shut down with “that country is not comparable “, “that country’s mental health in young people is much better “(it isn’t), “that country doesn’t give benefits” (it does) and so on. There isn’t even a willingness to listen or at least look at what works, much less to implement similar policies.

@MsAmerica , NEET is not even a new term. It has existed for at least 20 years.

Dd has a very competitive graduate training place. She says every single successful applicant has done Something Else. Not a gap yah well digging or fancy internship, but coal face type job to show I suppose that they can knuckle down. And references were sought so no making up you dug potatoes for six months!

There was no mass migration of young UK workers from Salford or Rochdale or Sunderland to Poland or Germany or Spain to get jobs that has now stopped.
There were always loads of construction workers from the North going to Europe to work. Not to mention lots of young people going out to do bar work, so it wasn't all Jemima going off to be a chalet girl in Val d'isere. In any case, Brexit has tanked our economy and tied businesses up in costs and red tape. This is one of the things that affects recruitment. It's been made many times worse by government policy but it was bad anyway.

Guess that person hasn't seen Auf Wiedersehen,Pet!