Can we talk about NEETs?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

Sorry if there's a thread already and I've missed it. But I want to talk about NEETs.

Apparently, we are potentially going to have 1.25million young people not in employment, education or training by the early 2030s. This is quite an alarming number, and it feels like we're failing an entire generation - both the NEETs themselves, who don't seem to have very much going on in their lives that might give them a sense of satisfaction or achievement, but also their working peers who will presumably end up having to support them via the tax system.

I really don't want this to be a thread with lots of judgement or criticism of these young people - it seems to me that we must have failed them somehow as a society. I also want to steer clear of party politics if we can. But I really want to understand why we have so many young people in this position right now.

Does anyone have a child in this situation who would be willing to share why they find themselves in this position? What are the barriers to them studying or getting at least a part time job? Are they happy with how things are right now? Are they trying to change their situation? What do they actually do all day? Are they surrounded by friends who are in the same position? What do they do about money? And what do you feel about the whole situation as a parent?

If anyone is willing to share, I really hope we can avoid a pile-on in which the young people and/or their parents are subjected to a character assassination. I would like an honest and frank exchange of views and experiences because I do genuinely want to understand the root causes of this issue, but if it descends into blame and fingerpointing, then the whole conversation will get derailed.

For full disclosure, I do have a dc in the middle of the 16-24 age group, but neither she nor any of her friends fall into this category.

I have 3 children - 16, 19 and 22. My 22 year old failed almost all of his GCSE's (thank you covid) but did an apprenticeship and then managed to get a full time job through someone he knows (warehouse work).
My 19 year old has never had a job, we lived in the middle of nowhere where there were no buses and she was unable to afford driving lessons etc as she had no job (catch 22). We moved to a city last year, she has done an extra year at college and is going to uni in September but is desperate for a part-time job. She has applied for over 50 jobs in the last 6 months and had 1 interview out of that. She has no work experience (again, thanks covid) so no one wants to employ her when they can have someone with experience. She has severe OCD so is unable to work with food/cleaning but she applies for every retail job going. Her friends are having similar issues, their applications are usually rejected within 48 hours of applying!

They still need money though. Oh. I see where that comes from..

The world has changed so much in a few generations that I don't think this is a useful comparison.

A few generations ago, that whole family could have been living really precariously. Moving out may have been the preferred option, but it often wasn't because as many incomes as possible helped support the household. I do recognise the scenario you described though - it was the case for my family too.

But comparing it to today, the parents are much much less likely to live in precarity than their independent child. I'm not sure what lesson we are supposed to draw. The long term implication of being supported by your parents is not automatically that you can't get a job, otherwise we would have seen a marked reduction in employment over a much longer period of time.

Milburn’s position seems to be that school is not fit for purpose (and this may be true). However, those who have survived the system graduating with good degrees, good exams, good mental health can’t get jobs either.

At least some of the focus needs to be on creating jobs and incentivising employers to employ young people. For example, the government could lower employer national insurance rates for employees up to age 25.

Yes. I know. I am agreeing they want to work but they're learning they're not getting jobs (for example after applying to 200 min wage jobs or whatever). They are learning there's fck all out there a lot of the time. and they can get benefits, so why try. For example. That's LH.

Yes. Labour have done the opposite of this, of course.

Conservative Party leader Kemi Badenoch: "Labour entered government and hiked employers national insurance, hiked the minimum wage, loaded new regulations on businesses. The result? Employers stopped hiring young people"

She has applied for over 50 jobs in the last 6 months and had 1 interview out of that.

That’s about 8 jobs a months, I wouldn’t say that’s really pushing it.

I have one (although I'd never heard this term before). I hope I don't end up with two because my youngest autistic DS is about to finish uni. It'll likely be a first from a top uni but with AI taking over a lot of software jobs I'm a bit worried.

But anyway, eldest DS is autistic and has inattentive adhd (diagnosed with autism 2 years ago, not diagnosed with adhd although it is the adhd that is causing more issues). His behaviour was unmanageable for me as a single parent so he lived with his dad from age 13 until recently. Obviously in many people's eyes, his dad is some sort of hero but he didn't have him assessed (I tried ages ago but the GP wouldn't refer him) and for many years he would not accept there was a problem.

DS has a non 24 hour circadian rhythm which is a huge huge problem because if he stuck to a 'normal' routine, a lot of the time he wouldn't have any sleep. He keeps circling round the clock going to bed 2 hours later each night. Besides this, he thinks there's no point going to uni and he doesn't want to be in debt. He's very paranoid so he thinks that the government won't stick to the agreement of not having to pay it back until people are earning a certain amount. He isn't even on benefits because trying to get him to do anything is like pulling teeth. It's like preparing for battle.

I'm also autistic and quite unwell a lot of the time....I'm improving lately but I have chronic silent migraines and I miss chunks of time where I'm unable to do anything. The past 20 years have been horrible and they've taken their toll on my health. Then when I feel better I'm catching up with everything so it's hard to find the energy to motivate DS.

So it's just me now as their dad won't communicate with me. A single, autistic, anxious, chronically unwell person trying to come up with ways of bringing in enough money (useless degree and I haven't been in proper employment for 23 years) and dealing with two autistic young adults on my own. I have a lot of resilience clearly but there's only so much I can actually do. I try to take a Taoist approach. I have also had a lot of luck in my life in a financial sense which has taken away some of the pressure. I feel very lucky that I was not born 20 years later because life would be so much more difficult now with the way the benefits system is and certain other things.

And before anyone starts on me, I'm not actually on benefits, I have savings from a couple of investments made a few years ago. But if I was it's none of your business.

DS has a non 24 hour circadian rhythm which is a huge huge problem because if he stuck to a 'normal' routine, a lot of the time he wouldn't have any sleep

Does this non circadian rhythm involve staying awake on screens by any chance?

It's always been tough for graduates. I finished uni before the 2008 crash and spent a year applying for jobs. I wasn't proud - I was doing supermarket cleaning and waitressing whilst I applied, but even that is tough today.

There are jobs, but increasingly, it through the grapevine or via self-starting enquiries, rather than standard applications. We need to restructure the next stage and make it easier for kids and employers to take the leap and work together. I don't blame NEETs. I blame the system that keeps them in school until 18, then leaves them to drift away.

Also, regarding SEN students, we've got to stop treating them as an afterthought. Some absolutely will never able to work, but a lot can, given the chance. They need a supported pathway. If we agree disabled kids deserve dignity and respect in school, we should also anticipate they will want the satisfaction of a job. We used to have the Remploy service for this.

Yes but don't you think 18-24 year olds have the ability to travel for work?
Maybe go to another city, they usually don't have kids at that age or other responsibilities.
So, if there is a child that has failure to launch, and has no mental health issues etc
Maybe they should be kicked out and allowed to land on their own two feet?
They're not gunna die
Why do they need to be babied?
My dad asked my brother to leave at 25
And my mum was upset and thought he wouldn't be able to survive, and it was because my brother was such a nuisance, took over the living room etc
He only started truly living when he left home, got his life together.
So if a young adult is not following rules, not trying everything, I think they should be allowed to sink or swim.
Especially young men, my god, lest they just all become incels!

My son is on the cliff edge of becoming a NEET. He leaves college next month and doesn't particularly want to go to university, because he doesn't know what he wants to do. He has offers of places, but isn't at all sure he wants to accept them.

He applied for a load of degree apprenticeships, and was turned down as his GCSEs are very average and they are highly competitive. He also applied for a load of level 3 apprenticeships, and was turned for down for being over-qualified - he is on track to achieve a very good L3 qualification, and business can't fund him to do another.

So that leaves him competing on the open job market. He's started applying for jobs and heard nothing. I've read that it takes 150 applications to get 1 interview at the moment. It is not easy keeping his chin up.

He does have a 12 hour contract in retail that will keep him going. He isn't technically a NEET I suppose. But his future looks wildly uncertain and it takes my breath away.

That is just not true. Do you know any young people? They are desperate to do well. This is the generation that sees influencers literally burn money in their LA mansions. They do not want to coast along on benefits. They want to make something of themselves, and they know they have to work to do that.

If they're on benefits, it's not a lifestyle choice for the majority.

It depends what jobs they are. If you're doing good quality graduate jobs at firms with extensive application processes, 8 a month would be really good going. They can each take up a day or more of time to prepare for and the time spend looking for opportunities really adds up.

I was job hunting towards the end of last year and it was a terrible experience. I applied for 15 jobs I was well qualified for, it took up weeks of my time and I only heard back from 1 of them.

?? I'm not saying they Want to be on benefits.

Op said she hasn’t yet been to university and is going in September

Zero hours contracts are still a way to learn about the world of work.
Both of my DC did casual jobs where they earned a bit of cash and got some experience. When you go for a job interview that tricky problem you solved while working in a menial job can be put to good use.

A few thoughts.
1.Think about it, what on earth causes an otherwise completely healthy person, healthy in mind and body that is to sit in the house 24/7 with zero motivation?
How is that normal?
It's possible to pass the time scrolling or gaming without getting bored whereas years ago you would have gone mad sitting at home all day.

2.Communication skills. If you never speak to anyone only message it's actually quite a big deal to learn.

3.Soft skills are missing. For many those don't come naturally. My eldest is 30 but I remember when he was 16 and looking for a part time job getting him to rehearse using a phone.

4.Even when my youngest graduated six years ago he spent 9 months applying for jobs. Hundreds of jobs. Even trying to get retail work to tide him over was difficult. Three levels of tests and screening for Tesco (he got that one).
Mainy of my DC's peers did Masters because they couldn't find work and still ended up unemployed for long periods.
So it's not new but it IS worse.

Far too many young people going to university to do courses which don't enhance their career prospects. Still too much snobbery about learning a trade instead of passing A levels.

Raising the retirement age might save a bit on pensions but those 65 year olds are job blocking.

I do think transport is a massive issue for not just NEETS but people in general. The cost of learning to drive is already exceptionally high. Running a car is extremely expensive. And in many parts of the country, public transport is dire. Trains and buses cancelled or delayed. Unreliable services. Yet more and more jobs want people with full driving licenses and the ability to drive to and from work to ensure people turn up on time.

Some young people may have their families able to help the costs of this but many do not. And then with the NHS waiting lists and near impossibility of getting support for those diagnosed with neurodevelopmental and psychiatric conditions combined with the rise in AI and social media and you can see the problem. It’s not like the majority of employers are sympathetic if you are anxious/autistic/overwhelmed either. You either do the job or they find someone else. But then there’s also little support out there to support people with these conditions.

How did he do it and when?Find a place to live and the money to pay for it, a job etc.?

I failed the Tesco screening. Still salty about that.

Then I would also add that finding 8 jobs open to non-grads under the age of 18 a month is quite the feat. I think I would exhaust my local area very quickly.

There are plenty of jobs
British and EU kids either aren't applying for them or aren't getting them
www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/newsroom/27-young-non-eu-migrants-hired-for-every-young-brit-since-2020-analysis-reveals

I have a relative in this position.

Been out of school three years, has adhd but never got support or medication in school. Despite being quite bright failed most of his exams. Has apparently applied for loads of jobs but has poor people skills/bad attitude so will never come across well in an interview. Parents hand over money on a daily basis.

Have a feeling he will be still at home when he’s 50.

It’s insane that we blame young people for their NEET status and not the state of the economy. Anyone who has tried to apply for even a part time job recently would know how tough the competition is. It’s insanely difficult for young people - especially those who were locked down during early secondary school, therefore missing out on such a key transitional life stage.