Can we talk about NEETs?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

Sorry if there's a thread already and I've missed it. But I want to talk about NEETs.

Apparently, we are potentially going to have 1.25million young people not in employment, education or training by the early 2030s. This is quite an alarming number, and it feels like we're failing an entire generation - both the NEETs themselves, who don't seem to have very much going on in their lives that might give them a sense of satisfaction or achievement, but also their working peers who will presumably end up having to support them via the tax system.

I really don't want this to be a thread with lots of judgement or criticism of these young people - it seems to me that we must have failed them somehow as a society. I also want to steer clear of party politics if we can. But I really want to understand why we have so many young people in this position right now.

Does anyone have a child in this situation who would be willing to share why they find themselves in this position? What are the barriers to them studying or getting at least a part time job? Are they happy with how things are right now? Are they trying to change their situation? What do they actually do all day? Are they surrounded by friends who are in the same position? What do they do about money? And what do you feel about the whole situation as a parent?

If anyone is willing to share, I really hope we can avoid a pile-on in which the young people and/or their parents are subjected to a character assassination. I would like an honest and frank exchange of views and experiences because I do genuinely want to understand the root causes of this issue, but if it descends into blame and fingerpointing, then the whole conversation will get derailed.

For full disclosure, I do have a dc in the middle of the 16-24 age group, but neither she nor any of her friends fall into this category.

The pronoun ‘they’ is unisex and can be used for both plural or singular. It is less formal than saying ‘one’ , e,g. ‘One wonders if she is a jackass’. HTH.

btw, it’s daughters’ not daughter’s

Agree working without pay is no help.
Making it more expensive via taxes doesn’t help either. Not that you’re suggesting this, but the gov are oblivious to the impact of their policies.

I have a neet. My daughter was very ill and and missed 6th form. She is now stable but couldn’t do ft education because of lasting health issues.

The post-19 system isn’t 1) flexible or 2) offering a range of academic option. This is particularly in wales. In England she could have done the access to HE qualification part time but here she’d have to be out of education for three years so it wasn’t an option yet. We agreed she shouldn’t wait as Returning to education is a vital part of rehabilitation.

We now pay for a range of tutoring and private school to make up a package she can manage. It is expensive (£20k this year). PIP helps, doing exactly what it meant to do by helping with the cost of being disabled. I hope that, by supporting this, her life course will not be derailed by being very ill in her teens. Too many kids are thrown on the scrap heap because they can’t fit into the rigid system and we need much more flexible routes into and through education.

He’s tried agencies but they won’t take him because he’s under 18. However, this is good advice and definitely worth a try when he turns 18 later this year.

Name change for this one.

Instead of focussing on the young people, I suggest we look at the labour market they’re trying to enter.

Small/medium-sized businesses employ around 16.9 million people in the UK, about 60% of the private sector workforce. Small businesses alone account for around 13 million jobs. Tax, NI, and legal compliance are getting absurdly difficult and complex as well as expensive. The UK is getting more litigous and based on rules and legalities.

Large corps absorb HR, legal and compliance costs far more easily than a café, shop, contractor or local firm with a handful of staff.

So employers have to rely more on temporary contracts and agencies. They automate where they can and avoid taking chances on people who need training.

Business groups have already warned MPs that rising employment costs are making firms less willing to hire younger or less experienced workers. The Federation of Small Businesses say more than a quarter of firms have reduced staff numbers.

We can’t solve this just by blaming young people. If most jobs come from small businesses, and small businesses increasingly feel they cannot afford the risk of hiring, then more young people are inevitably going to end up shut out of work.

My son is only young right now but I fear this will be him in the future. He has missed a lot of school due to medical reasons so isn't overly academic and is also quite complex so a workplace would have to be incredibly flexible and I just don't see it happening unfortunately.

Not all NEETS are the same.

There are the “poor white boys” (and Caribbean-heritage British boys) whose traditional jobs have all but disappeared. Farming, mining, docks, heavy industry… all jobs which paid a decent wage and did not require “soft” skills. Also no need to support a family. The state does that. In fact a partner/husband can be an economic hindrance.

Then the clerical jobs. Hardly any secretaries any more, no temps, no clerks in any number. Automation of many services which supplied a good entry point.

Young people who are not “appealing”. Mainly boys, even with top qualifications, but who can’t beat didactic HR rules even though they could do the job well. Ds was in this category! When a nerdy young man meets a self-important Becky from HR… no chance.

Mental health - seen this a lot. Setting aside those with genuine issues, there are those who have convinced themselves (and with backing from a mother, usually) that they are especially sensitive and can’t possibly face the world of work. As time goes on they are increasingly unemployable and it’s everyone else’s fault. If they do get a job, they are an employer’s worst nightmare - and their dm will be on MN venting about how terrible their dc’s boss is.

The food hygiene course is a really good idea, thanks!

Yep. This was known two years ago but it’s been tin eared and vacant non listening.

My DS gf had an awful time growing up. Almost in every way imaginable. No GCSEs despite very high predicted grades. Didn’t sit them due to absolute shit storm at home, bullied by younger brother and no SW help. They stopped in covid and never returned to check back on her. Developed OCD.

we met her some time after all this when she started seeing my DS. 3m later she had to leave her home due to violence.

she got a job near us, but it was so toxic and chaotic it was making her physically ill. So she quit.

we live stupid rural, she needs to learn to ride moped to get out and about. We are nearly there. The bike is going. I’m being proactive about telling them to just get the CBT course booked so at least she can then start to get used to getting out and about.

then she can get a pt job to start with.

she’s not on benefits. They stopped them when she moved in here, they wanted my DS to do a joint claim, he didn’t want to do that so he’s supporting her - we are too in terms of living here etc. she will get out and about, I think she’s ready now, she’s so much more positive and confident than she was.

there’s no rush from us, only that I don’t think it’s healthy for her to sit indoors all the time having nothing to do. She gets where I’m coming from. We also suggested training to be a beautician and I think she’s up for that, we’ll finance that if it comes to it.

she may be a NEET, but we’ll support her to rise. Nobody has ever encouraged her or believed in her until now. Fingers crossed for her success

Most private sector organisations won't take on volunteers, mainly due to the fact it would be considered exploitative or they don't want the headache of managing volunteers. The trick is to look at third sector ( charities) who often have dedicated volunteer co coordinators who will manage the process. All charities operate as businesses ultimately, so will still need people to manage their i.T networks or social media pages or front desks or in any other capacity really. Just look up volunteering local to you and you'll find masses of vacancies. The nhs is always recruiting for volunteers too! Your local council also will have volunteering programmes and their website will advise of what's available and how to apply. The council's also employ their own employment advisors who can help find paid work locally, as they'll be linked in with the local businesses . There is lots of support out there but the problem is, not a lot of people know how to tap into it. Your niece with her quals would be an absolute asset to a charity, and from there she gets the experience and something on her cv which can then lead to a paid job. Charities also love to recruit from within!

Hi there,

MNers on this thread might be interested to know that that next week Justine will be sitting down with Alan Milburn to talk about his report and ask him your questions. If you've got something you'd like to ask, please do head to this thread and post it there.

Thanks,
MNHQ

Young people are competing with more experienced older people, for fewer jobs, a family member of mine just moved jobs, part time, aged over 50, the company wanted lots of experience, which she has, minimum wage. Any young inexperienced people applying didn't stand a chance.
Add disability into the mix and it's even worse.
Maybe UBI is coming, or a move towards more part time roles for people becoming available.

https://www.fsb.org.uk/media-centre/uk-small-business-statistics

The stats for points in my post, fwiw.

The system increasingly appears designed to force small businesses out. Everything is designed to suit legal departments, HR departments, and large faceless multinational corps. Micro and small businesses have been saying this for years. There just is no provision for those who don't employ full time HR staff, in many cases.

The big state, heavily regulated, encourages large volume employers who can get away with tax avoidance, and if need be just absorb compliance costs.

Grassroots organic businesses that make or made up the bulk of employers cannot thrive in this climate.

They can't employ and they won't employ, and our young people will be the ones to suffer, unfortunately.

Last summer my daughter finished her A levels and couldn't find a job. She had her Cambridge place, she'd been editor of her school newspaper, excellent computer science skills, very personable and she still couldn't get a job despite applying to loads.

Luckily it galvanized her and she has something lined up for the summer but she got the position in February and had to do about 3 rounds of interviews for it!

Also it was something she found via University. She worked during the Easter holidays at something she got via uni too.

It's almost impossible to get something via traditional routes anymore.

To report is really interesting now its released.

Its long but in the health section it does say thst Individual Placement and Support has international evidence of working. So employment specialist are part of the clinical team and the person gets one to one support once employed.

It is up to the current generation largely those making policies, who run companies, who are educators who are in senior positions in organisations.

If this is not sorted out then we fall behind other countries. Fast. Who don’t seem to have these problems.

It's a shame you view volunteering like that. In my experience, it's the absolute opposite of what your suggesting - in that it provides a lot of working class kids, who lack a formal education, the chance to compete. If they're living away from parents and are not working, who is paying their rent and bills? Benefits. So, they may as well use their period of unemployment to upskill by volunteering, get experience and make themselves more employable. charities will cover travel expenses or there are opportunities to volunteer remotely, from home. I think you're referring more to privileged gap year students who take sponsored trips to Africa to 'build schools', which is an entirely different thing.

Ouch. Your language really jumps out here as judgemental, when the rest of the thread is thoughtful and respectful...

Regarding the MH thing, it's not only mothers pushing this onto kids. I used to teach and can tell you that for all the mission statements regarding resilience, the reality in (state) school is very different. We spend over a decade telling kids every day that it is ok not to cope with normal experiences, that they can have brain breaks, movement breaks, special accommodations for pretty much everything. In my last year 6 class before I quit, at the insistence of the SLT, they were allowed to sit in the corner and play with lego whenever they felt "overwhelmed". Guess where they wanted to be when it was time for maths or SPAG? One used to sit under a desk covered with a sheet. I'm not joking. We are failing these kids by trying to be kind. In my opinion, the lack of preparation for their future was negligent. I didn't want to be involved in that any more.

Our son is currently NEET. He was working in a remote hotel up until last month with staff accommodation. We found out he hadn't been eating or washing, drinking heavily and was becoming very ill without our support. He has ADHD and borderline personality disorder with psychosis and relies on us heavily.

Unfortunately quite a few males in my family have been the same, it seems to be genetic.

I'll get him back working, I always do. He's had jobs on and off since he was 15 and always worked hard. Sadly the support to help him remain in work is not there and mental health services are very poor in our area.

He had a brilliant upbringing and I feel very sad that we brought him into this world when everything seems against him despite our best efforts. I'd love to have a 'normal' son who didn't have all of his struggles (our other son does seem normal but who knows what the future holds).

I constantly feel judged for having a son like this but other than the very expensive psychiatric treatment he has had that we paid for, there has been no other useful help.

He won't show in the NEET figures anyway as he doesn't claim benefits. We support him financially.

One comment I do have to make is it's really hard to get apprenticeships. We did look into that and employers aren't incentivised at all.

We are both intelligent professionals who provide him with guidance and help to apply for jobs and it still seems hard at times. I don't know how a young person who didn't have that help would manage. Some of the job applications are horrendously long.

Nearly half of NEETS don’t claim benefits. It’s not related.

DH works for a US tech firm. He moved roles recently and went from having a team of 40 engineers under him, to 1.

Better role/title, soon to be bigger company, more money, same workload but looking to increase - but now he essentially runs a team of AI (and bots that run more AI bots). They have the same output.

And after speaking to his ex-colleague recently, his previous teams are going to be let go and replaced with a similarly small team AI engineers.

He retrained to get into engineering and used to try to hire promising graduates or people early on in their career on decent salaries (anywhere between 60K-150K). All those opportunities are now gone.

All the big tech firms are restructuring, not rehiring to replace leavers. It is changing so fast, I don't know how society will cope.

Only 20% of NEETs report MH so no it’s not a lot actually. And your misogynistic evidence re

“those who have convinced themselves (and with backing from a mother, usually) that they are especially sensitive and can’t possibly face the world of work. As time goes on they are increasingly unemployable and it’s everyone else’s fault. If they do get a job, they are an employer’s worst nightmare - and their dm will be on MN venting about how terrible their dc’s boss is”

is what exactly?

@Ablondiebutagoody nodded along with your last post. I retired from educations for a few reasons but what you articulated teamed with the gender nonsense in schools and colleges made me get out. I loved working with young people but wokeness dressed up as ‘be kind’ destroyed and opportunities to teach resilience.

In terms of the trans/gender/non binary situation it has harmed so many people especially vulnerable questioning young women many of whom have transitioned over the past 10-15 years. Why are they opting out of womanhood. We should be helping them to understand what reliance is not affirming them not wanting to face the reality of life. If you do not have to face things you will never gain coping skills to draw on.

A good read here specifically about the trans situation but I do think it can be applied to the wider issues in society both as to why NEETS exist as they do and also why adults are opting out of life. All dressed up as socialism and progressive but with respect not helping the working class at all. Hope that was not too much of a derail.

labourheartlands.com/trans-rights-the-conjuring-trick-at-the-toilet-door/