Can we talk about NEETs?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

Sorry if there's a thread already and I've missed it. But I want to talk about NEETs.

Apparently, we are potentially going to have 1.25million young people not in employment, education or training by the early 2030s. This is quite an alarming number, and it feels like we're failing an entire generation - both the NEETs themselves, who don't seem to have very much going on in their lives that might give them a sense of satisfaction or achievement, but also their working peers who will presumably end up having to support them via the tax system.

I really don't want this to be a thread with lots of judgement or criticism of these young people - it seems to me that we must have failed them somehow as a society. I also want to steer clear of party politics if we can. But I really want to understand why we have so many young people in this position right now.

Does anyone have a child in this situation who would be willing to share why they find themselves in this position? What are the barriers to them studying or getting at least a part time job? Are they happy with how things are right now? Are they trying to change their situation? What do they actually do all day? Are they surrounded by friends who are in the same position? What do they do about money? And what do you feel about the whole situation as a parent?

If anyone is willing to share, I really hope we can avoid a pile-on in which the young people and/or their parents are subjected to a character assassination. I would like an honest and frank exchange of views and experiences because I do genuinely want to understand the root causes of this issue, but if it descends into blame and fingerpointing, then the whole conversation will get derailed.

For full disclosure, I do have a dc in the middle of the 16-24 age group, but neither she nor any of her friends fall into this category.

You don’t speak for all disabled people. The variance in disability means it’s not the same battle for all.Who says disabled people have a negative attitude to work anyway?

What if your child’s school said they could not attend because they couldn’t guarantee to keep them safe? Sure, they’ll provide online work, but your kid is not going in. Real scenario , even when the kid wants to go back (albeit, on a reduced time table).

I wondered this.

The entry level jobs and p/t sat jobs for teen and young people don't seem to be there - even the graduate schemes seem to have been cut back.

There fewer young people than in past - and in my family are taking on more edcuation in effort to be more appealing but there seem to be fewer jobs for young people. Then MN and media blame them rather than look at wft going on with employers.

As someone 3 months retired and have upped my social media and general Internet use since then, it has had all sorts of negative impacts. I'm adressing it now, but if you are brought up with this level of SM and Internet I'm not surprised some will struggle to follow traditional routes of getting jobs and housing. It is a huge public health issue that is generally being ignored. I am fairly confident that if I was in this generation I would struggling too. We spent two years telling them all social interaction was life threatening during their formative years and then shut down most of the opportunities to get some basic work experience. We insist everything is done on line from banking to college lectures to social media to shopping to remote working and wonder why some find it hard to communicate and work with other people or have serious MH issues. You can live your whole life never meeting people in real life now.
It was our generation who have failed them. We failed to see the real consequences of lockdowns on young people to makes sure us older people were safe, we failed to regulate SM properly as the adults in power, we permitted concentration of resources into a few organisations and normalised greed. We sold them a pup about university education being the way to good jobs, and ensured they ran up unsustainable debt for the privilege of finding it out. We created a society where our children can't even house themselves.
But in the workplace I have just left the common themes of the new recruits were

1. They always had things going on where they met people and friends in real life. They targeted education and training to their specific needs and objectives and not just general education.
2. They seemed to get involved in community things. Like volunteering at the local festival or helping out with something on a weekend. Seemed to have travelled a bit to European cities too.
3. Never seemed to be on SM that much. Seemed to avoid FB and TickTock.

It's hard for young adults at the moment and we should be looking to support them in every way possible.

Sorry that happened to you. What did they mean by 'they can't keep them safe?'

My teen school was very supportive when I said I'm basically going to force them in. DC most days went straight into the 'holding pen' or whatever the green room was called, but they got through the weeks.

With all due respect this is a nonsense and offensive to many disabled people.

This exactly, there are not enough jobs to go round.
My DDs are early 20s and while neither are NEETs they could be.
The older one has a masters degree and is cleaning hotel rooms.
The younger one has 1 more year to finish an integrated masters program. The younger one is physically disabled so is a bit behind her age group.

I am sad my older one could not land a graduate job. They are saving to apply for a funded PhD maybe in a year or two in an EU country as the UK universities are in financial straits.

My younger one I am truly afraid for, they can’t just go get any job and work it like stocking shelves, or cleaning, or construction. Their degree field is accessible but who is going to hire a disabled candidate when there aren’t enough jobs for abled graduates?

And as you know disabillties can vary massivly from mild to profound.

I haven’t read the full thread yet but I remember that graduates struggled to get jobs when I graduated in the late 1990s. We were among the first wave of “everyone should go to university” to graduate. I applied for lots of jobs and eventually got a low-paid entry position in London, where I had to live in a nasty flatshare with strangers (found via Loot) and got into lots of debt but I had the chance to progress and eventually it worked out, unlike some friends who never got a graduate job.

The differences were: limited internet/no AI and some job applications even asked for a handwritten cover letter, which limited the number of applications per job; student debt was much less, I had a small student loan and overdraft when I graduated; internships weren’t a thing - I doubt that I would have got my first job without one nowadays and wouldn’t have had the connections to get one in my industry.

I’m not sure what the answer is though, my DCs are quite academic and will likely go to university but I’m not sure what will await them when they finish. Friends of my oldest, who didn’t have the academic route option are struggling now though - vocational college courses with no jobs at the end, or fighting over a limited number of coveted trade apprenticeships.

Sorry, not my teen . She has her issues , but we’re muddling through. A classmate of hers , self harming , suicidal and several other things. Same rigamarole of hiding all sharps, meds etc and constant supervision at home. Ironically, one of the few kids who started y7 with a Nokia brick and no social media. The school couldn’t guarantee they could offer the same level of supervision and restrictions of dangerous objects. I suspect they were particularly careful/weary and reluctant to risk it because they actually had a student kill themselves at school a few months prior , which massively affected the whole school community (including staff).

However this started last year ,spring in y8, and y9 is now nearly over and she’s only been in school for a visit once.

Successful businesses won't be successful for very long if you require them to take on workers who don't provide a return for their wages.

It would be better for parents to give their teens some basic marketable skills. Mine has lifeguard and cpr certificates. Food hygiene certificate is a good one for the hospitality industry, good phone skills and a, basic understanding of gdpr for call centre work.

My nephew has his first job at 16 because my brother taught him to strip & service a mountain bike.

Young workers, like any other workers have to be worth the investment. Basic skills don't take long to acquire and are worth the investment.

It doesn't help that UC has only two age bands - under 25 and 25+.
Minimum wage has three bands for under 18 & Apprentices, 18-20, and 21+

Why on earth age 25 for UC? Even centuries ago you were an adult at 21.

It would make sense to have a much lower UC for 18-20 year olds living in a household with others, and only make it the same rate as for adults (should be age 21) if you are paying rent instead of 'board'. i.e. to try and separate out those living independently and paying a landlord from those living with friends or relatives and just paying an amount for their food and share of bills.

There should be a lower minimum wage for 14-15 year olds (capped at about 6 hours per week), another rate for 16-17 year olds, both of which categories should have no employers NI and no day-one employment security.

Sadly schools don’t always have the funding to provide enough guidance. I’m a qualified L6 careers advisor who works 20 hours in a school that has 1200 students. There are so many other factors that play a part in this as many have already mentioned. I worry about a lot of our young people.

@Meadowfinch I agree to an extent that parenting plays a part but it is ultimately down to the YP and the choices they make.
I did much like you described - encouraged & helped my DS to get a PT job, funded and facilitated training in a sports coach qualification for all the reasons you outline and all was going well until age 17 when he discovered weed & a social life (lockdown teen so probably later to it than he might otherwise have been) and he turned into the classic angry young man. Gave up his sport, did a PT job but only to fund his weed & snack habit and was thoroughly objectionable for a couple of years including finishing college with no direction. He was a NEET for 18 months and it nearly killed him & me.

Thankfully he did eventually get bored/see the light/got sick of me nagging him/was about to be kicked out and found his old spark again and started applying for jobs. It took him 8 months and I don't think any of roles he applied for online he even had an acknowledgement which was very demotivating and demoralising, recruitment consultants were better but very few jobs for entry level and numerous applicants so even getting to interview was tough.

He has now got a full time job thank the lord and 6 months on and he's doing really well. He's happier, working hard, more engaged, will sit and chat over dinner and messiness aside, it's honestly like having my boy back again. He still goes out with one of his old stoner mates occasionally but he's up for work at 7am and it's not often so I can overlook that as long as I don't see or smell it anywhere near my or the house. He was very much right place, right time (& very personable) and if this opportunity hadn't come along I dread to think how long he would have been looking.

Yes, we have failed them by giving them money, accommodation, and 'understanding of how difficult it is to be young these days' and fake mental health diagnoses.

Look at the illegal migrant youngsters - no work permit, nowhere decent to live, renting 10 to a room, all on bikes delivering food, etc. etc. - and all are heroes in the eyes of their relatives abroad, to whom they send money.

I'd say the main issue is successive governments have made employing people more expensive and cumbersome, plus diminished opportunities for casual work which have punished young people. In addition, high immigration also increases the competition for jobs.
I know first hand when I have recruited the amount of applicants I get from people born abroad who are either looking to stay on a visa or obtain a visa is very high. And most of them are highly skilled. I make no judgements on the rights or wrongs of the situation but that's the reality.

Re AI, I don't think this is the reason for a lot of job losses yet. Most firms are getting to grips with it beyond basic productivity gains at the moment and AI token usage cost is exploding. So in a another year or two we'll really see how much AI takes jobs once use cases are firmed up and tested. But software and digitisation has taken many entry grade jobs already and as these become more sophisticated and combine with AI then further administration roles will be cut I've no doubt. It's why government making employment so costly is stupid and hiking NI was an absolute disaster of a decision.

On the plus side, where we have recruited apprentices (mid size financial services business) they are bright and well motivated. I don't buy into the nonsense that young people are all rude or can't take their eyes off their phone. They need managing differently for sure, and some of the things they care about in the workplace are different to older generations but that's nothing new.

How are they able to volunteer in IT as an example.

I have a niece with qualifications in IT and she cannot find a job. How would she go about this please?

I've worked in different industry and never seen volunteers.

I am stunned by some comments about young people staying in bed until midday.
My mother would never have allowed that to occur. Not in a million years.
Come on people. How is that helping ?

I would like to know how the numbers are calculated, do they include gap year students, disabled young people, people briefly unemployed while job searching.

There are many neets who are ND or undiagnosed ND

OP what do you think about the fact there aren't enough jobs available for everyone? Or are you just assuming the problem lies solely with the young unemployed people being socially awkward, and if we fix that, although you can't 'fix' ASD, then this issue will be solved

What's with all the pronoun changing? It makes it sound like you don't know your daughter's sex!

As a former employment advisor working on NEET contracts, the best advice I can give is volunteer! Most young people don't want to, as why would they want to work for no money, but it's often the gateway to a career and builds valuable life skills and confidence.

How do you pay rent and bills and feed yourself when you work for zero pay? How do you even pay the bus or train fare to get to this mythical voluntary role?

Volunteering, like unpaid internships are the preserve of the privileged who can live with Mum and Dad, all expenses paid. It gatekeeps working class kids from ever getting into an entry level job in many professions because as you say it gives you a leg up on any job vacancies
you can volunteer in pretty much any sector around - social media, admin, I.T, mentoring...and once you're in the organisation, you'll be shortlisted for any paid vacancies that come up.

How is wanting to have a positive approach to people who have disabilities finding employment offensive and nonsense.
It is not.

I listened to analysis of the Milburn report on the radio this morning and it seemed clear that the major factor was the reduction in entry level jobs, with many of these now eroded by AI. Everyone's response to that seems to be 'get a trade', but it is not that easy if you don't have family/friends in a trade - it is very nepotistic and hard to secure an apprenticeship without contacts. We have designed a world very hard for young people to break into.