Can we talk about NEETs?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

Sorry if there's a thread already and I've missed it. But I want to talk about NEETs.

Apparently, we are potentially going to have 1.25million young people not in employment, education or training by the early 2030s. This is quite an alarming number, and it feels like we're failing an entire generation - both the NEETs themselves, who don't seem to have very much going on in their lives that might give them a sense of satisfaction or achievement, but also their working peers who will presumably end up having to support them via the tax system.

I really don't want this to be a thread with lots of judgement or criticism of these young people - it seems to me that we must have failed them somehow as a society. I also want to steer clear of party politics if we can. But I really want to understand why we have so many young people in this position right now.

Does anyone have a child in this situation who would be willing to share why they find themselves in this position? What are the barriers to them studying or getting at least a part time job? Are they happy with how things are right now? Are they trying to change their situation? What do they actually do all day? Are they surrounded by friends who are in the same position? What do they do about money? And what do you feel about the whole situation as a parent?

If anyone is willing to share, I really hope we can avoid a pile-on in which the young people and/or their parents are subjected to a character assassination. I would like an honest and frank exchange of views and experiences because I do genuinely want to understand the root causes of this issue, but if it descends into blame and fingerpointing, then the whole conversation will get derailed.

For full disclosure, I do have a dc in the middle of the 16-24 age group, but neither she nor any of her friends fall into this category.

Full report to be released at 11.00am.

I def think something has to be done about this issue and lack of jobs for youngsters.

My DS17 has one more year at sixth form. Hes dyslexic and not academic but tried and got Cs at gcse, think he'll scrape them/equivalent at Sixth form. No idea what he will do then, he wants to work in IT but every job wants experience. He does work part time in a pub restaurant, so at least he has got something to put on his CV, although totally unrelated to what he wants to do. He is also starting driving lessons soon. It seems like these days, you just need to be happy with whatever job you can find.

Society and the economy has to provide jobs, not every 18 year old is going to be a motivated self starter who can set up their own small business.

I worked in publishing, my first job was typing letters, sending telexes, photocopying proofs, sorting and distributing sets of proofs to the right people, packing up marked proofs and sending them back to typesetters/printers etc etc. None of this work is needed any more because it's all done digitally. This can be replicated in many other areas, like banking and even retail.

my 22 year old nephew is NEET. Awarded gcse’s during the pandemic otherwise he probably wouldn’t have any qualifications at all. Spends all his time inside online and is now saying he’s a woman. Diagnosed Audhd.
Reddit has a lot to answer for…

I have been teaching for 15 years and in the last few years have had a sudden awareness of older siblings like this. In my class of 25, 3 have older siblings who will fit into this category. All would match the description above.

I can also see a few pupils in my class/school who I wouldn't:t be surprised to end up in this situation.

It's very sad but in my opinion it's situations that have been enabled by parents. I was a very anxious child and teen and went through periods of feeling very isolated and overwhelmed. Whilst Internet wasn't a big thing, due to my friend issues I spent a lot of time avoiding life but watching TV. But my parents simply did not allow me to do it. I had to go to school, I had to limit screen time. Thankfully I did meet my tribe and they became lifelong friends and I became more confident. But I definitely could have hidden away from life if my parents had allowed it.

I’m quite surprised but pleased you’ve started this Mrs Bennet.

I can only contribute as a person who sees the catastrophic result of allowing under 25s to claim benefits on a near daily basis.

Benefits ruin lives. I realise that sounds like a Daily Mail headline, and I’m not a Reform/Restore voter or anything like that. But I cannot deny the evidence of my eyes and ears.

We think benefits are a kindness, there to help people and improve their lives. What I actually see, with frightening frequency, is the following pattern:

1. School leaver leaves school at 18. Usually not the most academic but then the majority won’t be.
2. They work for a few months, maybe even a year, and for whatever reason this job comes to an end - whether they get sacked, or leave.
3. They sign on to UC as a ‘temporary measure’.
4. For a few months they might put the odd application in, usually big chains that will be swamped with applications. They’re youngish and don’t have a lot of job seeking experience and therefore they don’t find much success.
5. Over time, they lose their routine. They lie in bed late, sleep late, spend time hanging around with other unemployed friends. A lot of weed/alcohol involved due to the boredom.
6. After a year or two of this they’re unemployable. They’re lazy, their brains are a bit addled from whatever addictions they’ve sank into.
7. The petty crime starts owing to having too much time on their hands and usually being an alcoholic/weed addict at this point.
8. They then develop, unsurprisingly, a MH issue and the PIP starts and gives them a nice top up. At this point they’re not wealthy by any stretch but it’s enough to get by.
9. By age 30/40, they’ve normally been on benefits for the majority of the last 10 or 20 years. They have addictions, ASD, ADHD, no work history, MH issues and very usually a few kids with ex partners that are themselves now going to grow up to repeat the cycle.

Imagine if they HADN’T been given the initial benefits back at Stage 3. Of course they would’ve had an unpleasant skint few months but the urgency of job hunting and necessity would’ve helped and they likely would have found another job, if they weren’t picky. Stages 4-9 would be highly mitigated or wouldn’t have happened.

Of course that’s not the whole story and there is a big conversation to be had about the education system and support from job centres and apprenticeships. But the above is the crux of the matter.

There are some good points about pushing young people towards 'careers' rather than jobs.
I used to teach, was made to teach BTEC as it was easier and they could be 'coaxed' through the coursework. This of course led to more getting better grades that realistically wasn't a reflection of their academic ability.
The attitudes over the time I taught from young people (so 15 years) very much changed, from grades being their responsibility and down to their hard work to in recent times the effort of the teacher and them being to blame for lack of success. Maybe this also applies to real life for some - it's easier to blame the poor jobs market, lack of opportunities etc than to go out and get something.
I live in a tourist area with lots of holiday camps, cafes etc. they desperately need cleaners but this type of role is seen as below people. When I first started teaching many of my students would do these roles and be glad of the money. Parents now use the excuse of wanting their child to focus on studying to get a better job.

I agree. My friend's son had terrible attendance while at school and failed his A levels. Not due to lack of ability or anxiety but because hed always been allowed to stay home.
After school he stayed home for two years. His mum then wangled him an admin job where she works that normally requires a degree. He had no application or interview. Just walked into it.

The full new report isnt out but one written last year suggested half of these neets arent claiming benefits at all and its one of the issues in that thats how they would access support from the job centre

(Although it didnt say if they had pip which isnt tied to work at all)

Oh do educate yourself before citing Daily Wail type rants.

Half of NEETS are not on benefits.Only a quarter cite health issues.

ADHD and ASC are disabilities from birth and the difficulties from said disabilities make life and employability hugely difficult. That said both conditions still are a small percentage of the NEET population as a whole.

Young people need to live and very much need and are entitled to benefits. Loving the way the older generations pull the ladder up as regards work and also want young people to live on fresh air whilst supporting them in old age too.

NEETs include uni graduates and many others with qualifications who are trying incredibly hard to get work.

https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/publications/false-starts/

Years ago many young people did Saturday jobs. It was a wonderful introduction to the world of work. These should still exist. I am not sure they do in the numbers they used to have. And many expected to do one.

The Saturday job did go out of fashion a bit if I can use that phrase. It became a symbol of not having parents well off enough to fund you. So for many parents I think in the 1980’s they didn’t want their children doing one.

The recent nonsense in insurance costs has not helped businesses nor of course therefore young people.

Far too many people exist for the number of posts available. Some posts often for global companies are filled by people from overseas. They do not have to prove there was nobody here who could have undertaken the job before hiring the overseas person.

Society has driven young people to all go to university which is daft. Not everyone should go. Practical skills have therefore been forgotten. And apprenticeships fallen by the wayside.

To have young people not even thinking about work or having no work experience whatsoever by the age of 21/22 is a problem. The young person needs to think about the working long before then.

Leaving work experience too long and it becomes a bit like long term unemployment. They sometimes don’t want to do it. Not for all, but certainly it will be the case for some.

Too many go on gap years. If they got a job it would be a massive leg up in terms of employment. When they leave university they will have had the benefit of a years solid work experience. That will catch the eye of an employer.

The other downside is the mad recruitment practices which are in operation.
Odd team tests etc. All for a modest job. Who does this benefit ? The only person it benefits is the consultant who invented the system. A manager should do an interview after a CV or application form. And let that be it.

For me though nobody should be not in education, training or work. It should not be an option not to be.

I feel sorry for young people who desperately want a job but cannot get one.

My daughter could easily have been a NEET, autistic, co-ordination problems and not academic. What made a huge difference was volunteering in a charity shop, where she was valued, and was then able to get a part time job in the local convenience store where she is very reliable and loved for her happy demeanour. Several years on I think full time work would not be possible for her while maintaining really good mental health. Being valued for something they can do outside the home I think is crucial in this transition to being an adult.

@Seagulldancing
My neighbour would say to them to get an electric bike - no lessons needed, no insurance. He has a 21 year old Ukrainian man working with him who gets up at 5.30am to get two buses to be on site at 7.45am. He will have saved enough money in 4 weeks to buy himself a decent electric bike.

DS would be a terrible teacher. I know, I am one! I think funnelling him and other YP into teaching who are incredibly unsuited creates another problem... that aside his degree isn't in a subjects that trains teachers and he doesn't have A level maths or physics.

His degree is in politics (he has been shortlisted by one MP to work for him - the others have all ignored him; he applied for a job he was definitely adequate for at the HoL organising school tours - never heard back) and his master's is in public policy.

Believe me , you would not want DS anywhere near the construction industry. He only need look at an object and he breaks it. He has no fine motor skills.

The trouble with DS , and I imagine a lot of desperate YPs in low pad/no jobs is scattergun applications. He basically applies for anything he sees and rushes the applications because he sees no point. The latest thing he has applied for is a train driver . Apaprently there are 1000s of applicants for each role.

I wish he wanted to be a teacher, and that I believed he would be OK at it. But his 8 months TAing proved that was a job type that would push him further into depression. Teaching will probably be a back up plan for DS2 who is more suited.

What makes me laugh is when people/the government say we need to up the birth rate to pay for the elderly/pensions. We don't need to up the birthrate, all that will do is increase the numbers on benefits because they can't get a job. What we need are more jobs.

But I guess it's easier to blame people not having enough children then it is to fix the job market.

But then you can employ a few full time staff mon-fri then younger sat/sun part time
so the full time staff can have weekends (possibly older staff who have families or just want a weekend)

@MsAmerica the bit where you called them slackers. Just after all the posts about young people who’d applied for hundreds of jobs and not got one yet.

What I also find astonishing is the way reasonable adjustments for disabilities such as ASC and ADHD that enable people to work are lambasted by the Daily Wail readers on here. Which do you want? ND in work or not because you can’t have both an absence of reasonable adjustments and ND people in work.

My 23yo DS could very easily have become a NEET. Instead he is starting a decent career. He would say this himself.

Why?
He was always a very shy, introverted, socially awkward kid.
Difficult family circumstances that impacted on his self esteem.
Good friends but not ambitious ones.
He had decent grades but teachers expected to excel and he found himself under huge pressure and therefore not enjoying school.
He had no idea what he was interested in or wanted to do.

What helped?
I focused on two aspects as he was growing up: his social awkwardness and self esteem. Not easy! Social awkwardness involved exposure, so constant battles. Self esteem was making him feel good about himself when he accomplished something, and telling not too fell awful when he didn't.

When he was at school, it was hard work to encourage him to be involved in activities 'for the good of his future'. He wasn't interested or motivated. We focused on things that were the closest to what he was interested and me pestering him until he agreed to some. Ultimately, these were things he was able to use on his CV, worded to link the experiences to something valuable to the jobs he later applied to.

At 16, after his GCSEs, I told him that he HAD to get a PT job and opting out wasn't an option. He only wanted a job away from the public. He applied to a supermarket job, thinking he would just be stacking goods. I helped with his CV, we did practice interviews techniques...again with a lot of pestering and moaning. He got the job...he was on the till from day one...exposed to his worse fears, wanted to quit, knew I'd be angry and disappointed so he didn't...and gradually felt ok about it. 3 years later, he loved the job, the people he met and his self esteem multiplied by 5. It also taught him to manage work and studying, managing his time and the pressure.

Decided at the last minute to do a degree. Ok subject, which he was good at but not that interested, crap uni. Disastrous first months, he was adamant he was going to quit by December. We talked a lot. At this point, it was more about understanding his feelings and wishes, less about parental expectations, but came up to a compromise about giving it until Easter...than it was ending the year. Year 2 was a bit better, year 3 not as bad. Under huge pressure from professors, made to be lazy and not engaged enough. One believed in him, became his dissertation supervisor. He was a mess starting it but had great guidance and he started to enjoy writing it to the point that he was completely focused and very determined to do very well. He did and proved his instructors wrong.

His supermarket job allowed him to work throughout his studies applying for jobs in his uni town.

Then he graduated and like many, it was a tough time. He applied to a very competitive graduate job and manage to get into the top 1%, but fell at the last hurdle. Great experience going through the process. Then came the numerous applications and the no responses. Two interviews where he was treated quite badly by the companies (promises made not kept, poor communication etc...). Queue to feeling down, hopeless, scared, bored and self esteem back to the floor.

It wasn't easy to be understanding, encouraging, motivating and pushy all in good balance. Exhausting to manage all his feelings whilst making sure not to destroy our relationship. Hard to manage my own fears, resentment when I felt he wasn't engaged as he should, ignoring what wasn't important, still spending quality times together.

He finally accepted that he needed to stay away from 'popular' and apply to jobs less attractive. Sure enough, that was the answer. Applied for a job that was as far away from his dream job as possible, involved some daily travel, but it was a job. He didn't have all the essential requirements yet he did get an interview on account of his work experience and a good application where he managed to relate his experience to the job. We were both totally surprised when he got an interview. Queue to working very hard to prepare for the interview. His graduate job application experience really helped as did working on his dissertation. He amazed me with the time and worked he put into it. He excelled at the interview, he got the job.

The first three months were very very hard. He was riddled with anxiety and putting himself under tons of pressure. Triggered by the sense that he didn't know what he was doing and was going to let his boss and team down. He suffered from horrible panic attacks. Needed support again, emotionally, psychologically and practically. By then, he had good experience of carrying through and knowing there was a light at the end. He was very self aware and able to analyse and identify his feelings. He got out of it. His confidence grew, he was highly praised, he got happier, he started to feel good about himself. He is now fully integrated, doesn't love the job but likes most of his duties and live his team. His boss is very encouraging of him progressing up the ladder. He is next for further training and promotion. He lives in his own place, own his own car and his comfortable with who he is. Success.

The reality is the it required from a very early age a lot of investment on my part to be there for him. I recognise that I have skills that many other parents don't have. I think that's the problem. Too many parents who don't have a clue how to support their kids and/or don't have the energy, motivation, or willingness to do it, themselves overwhelmed by their own struggles. It's very hard work with no guarantee of success, but when it does, the relief and pride is worth it all

I agree 100% that the notion of pride has gone and this is a very serious problem. My son didn't had a clue what it was like to feel pride. He does now and it is taking him a long way to happiness.

You do realise that there are people that are so disable that actually can’t study, train or work, right?

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. All of our children are ND but never would I have stood for them being plonked on an iPad in school and isolated. It’s not teaching them any skills. It’s completely unacceptable that it happens to any child. All children should play team sports. They need to be coachable. They need to learn to work with a team even when they don’t like them. DSS truly believes he can choose something that really interests him…

Just to add that I have little doubt my son could have received a diagnosis of autism when he was at his lowest. He exhibited so many characteristics. Whether he would still classify as autistic but coping or not because he never really was, just really struggle with many aspects at the time, who knows.

All children absolutely should not play team sports. My ND children found team sports hugely traumatising. Finding activity that keeps children fit is key and there needs to be more focus on individual sports.

He finally accepted that he needed to stay away from 'popular' and apply to jobs less attractive. Sure enough, that was the answer. Applied for a job that was as far away from his dream job as possible, involved some daily travel, but it was a job.

I also think this is key.

I have three in the category
One was raped at uni, became dependent on drugs - weed/coke and alcohol finished uni
spent 6 months in her bedroom then finally got a job through my appeal to my network on LinkedIn
Second is so psychologically fragile I cannot envisage her managing a professional role when she graduates
Third is brilliant, the least naturally clever but sound in every other way. If they are able to secure an apprenticeship they will fly. Its just getting through the door