Can we talk about NEETs?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

Sorry if there's a thread already and I've missed it. But I want to talk about NEETs.

Apparently, we are potentially going to have 1.25million young people not in employment, education or training by the early 2030s. This is quite an alarming number, and it feels like we're failing an entire generation - both the NEETs themselves, who don't seem to have very much going on in their lives that might give them a sense of satisfaction or achievement, but also their working peers who will presumably end up having to support them via the tax system.

I really don't want this to be a thread with lots of judgement or criticism of these young people - it seems to me that we must have failed them somehow as a society. I also want to steer clear of party politics if we can. But I really want to understand why we have so many young people in this position right now.

Does anyone have a child in this situation who would be willing to share why they find themselves in this position? What are the barriers to them studying or getting at least a part time job? Are they happy with how things are right now? Are they trying to change their situation? What do they actually do all day? Are they surrounded by friends who are in the same position? What do they do about money? And what do you feel about the whole situation as a parent?

If anyone is willing to share, I really hope we can avoid a pile-on in which the young people and/or their parents are subjected to a character assassination. I would like an honest and frank exchange of views and experiences because I do genuinely want to understand the root causes of this issue, but if it descends into blame and fingerpointing, then the whole conversation will get derailed.

For full disclosure, I do have a dc in the middle of the 16-24 age group, but neither she nor any of her friends fall into this category.

Removal of many industrial jobs which brought in Blair’s idea that everyone should go to university and we should import a foreign slave class to do the ‘menial jobs’.

Now we’re seeing the consequences of that because those ‘menial’ jobs are the best start to anyone’s career even if it has nothing to do with your chosen career. It builds confidence, work ethic etc.

I really get uncomfortable with all being pushed into caring for the vulnerable. All are not suitable to fill caring roles. The vulnerable are not just there to keep people in employment.

Your ignorance is staggering!

I agree. It’s also not a flexible job that works around higher education like university. NEETS often just need a stop gap job to earn some money as they figure out their career path.

I also hated when Polanski showed his classism by saying “I don’t want to wipe people’s bums” as a way of endorsing immigration. Those who need care should be shown more respect and be cared for by decent staff who want to be there as it’s more than wiping bums.

Surely self-employment is the answer? Cleaning, gardening, car washing, dog walking, nails, breeding exotic insects, crafts, Vinted, etc.

Most YP getting work experience are probably getting help from their parents either through people they know or help with applications etc. Also if transport is needed either as part of job or to get to job, that may also require parental assistance. So that could have MC bias too.

DS’s GF is applying for many jobs, falls within this NEET category. Over 40 applications so far, think they have had one actual rejection (others no response) and one interview. We are now trying to help her with applications etc process as both DH and I have been involved with recruitment through our professions.

Yes , but this shows it has been an issue for years. For more than 40 years in fact, and nothing has been done successfully. Or at least no long term, sustainable, well thought out and properly funded policies. Just angry headlines and “plaster”, soundbite , kick the can down the road solutions.

What do you see as the cause of this?

How was he at 10,12 etc?

Retail… the Primark in town used to have 20 tills (even if not all constantly open at the same time, but they often were during busy periods). You know how many were yesterday? Two!!

Is this information being used somehow? or just for mn.

I can’t see why the gov are so blindsided by this when policies have crunched the youth jobs market further.

Posts along these lines were dismissed, at least the report has made people notice.

I think a lot of people underestimate how many trade apprenticeships, especially in smaller businesses go to the children of people who are friends or relatives of the boss. It's very much not what you know, but who you know. The same even applies to labouring roles. This has always been the case - my father got a trade apprenticeship without even an interview in the 1950s because his dad knew the foreman

And all those saying about how come immigrants get these roles on building sites - often it's the same thing - they know people already working on site, often of the same nationality.

And in any case, most site managers when confronted with a 20 something immigrant who has clearly done years of hard labour and an 18 year old who failed his A levels will choose the work hardened man.

😂😂😂 You’re funny.

In my circle I have 4 recent graduates - 3 physiotherapy grads and midwifery grad. 1 works in macdonalds, 1 has spent 2 years doing short temporary warehouse jobs, the other 2 have been NEET for a year.

My own DS has excellent GCSEs, great L3 BTEC in engineering, relevant work experience and at 18 staring NEET in the face for the foreseeable.

Blairs obsession with uni and UCAS’s project million don’t help. We have close to a million graduates each year… we don’t have that many grad roles!!

In my own professional life working with NEET young people features heavily. Part of that includes employer engagement. They say they have a desperate need for more young people, worried about the future talent pipeline blah blah blah… and then only advertise experienced roles, have to be 18, gave to have a drivers license…

I don’t know the answer, but the disconnect between employers, policy makers and education providers is a huge huge problem. And as our aging population starts to retire we’ll be utterly screwed if we don’t start giving younger people a chance.

I have a neighbour who runs a small building company. He runs 2 or 3 jobs at a time - small extensions, renovations etc. He is finding it impossible to get as he calls them 'young lads' to start out with him. He is looking for 18, 19 year olds with self motivation and enthusiasm who don't mind hard physical work and are prepared to be on site ready to work at 8.00am. He pays well, is not a bully and having been in the building trade all his life is decent to them.
He says phone addiction is the biggest issue - unless he is practically standing there watching them all day the phones are out and very little work is done. He has asked all round the neighbourhood and no takers for the work.
And these are jobs which will not be taken over by AI in the medium future anyway..

Scouts near us is £10/ month. Anyone who told us of financial issues would be able to join for free.
DoE is 1/4 price done via scouts than schools. Because of volunteers giving up their time!

I take student work experience and volunteers at my workplace. It’s a pain usually but very good for them.

I have several friends who offer trial shifts in hospitality / cafe work and then weekend jobs for those who turn up & complete basic tasks with politeness & hygeine.

My son’s friends volunteer at places like stables and dog rehoming centre. Or as an instructor in holiday clubs for younger kids like dance, karate, drama etc. Some have paper rounds or little Etsy shops for crafts.

One 16yo friend-of-a-friends-son has started a cooking business providing homemade dishes for kids at nursery to take home with them when parents collect. Serving the “busy FT parent” market.

My point is that none of these relate to school or academic qualifications. We hear a lot about how dreadful secondary schools are now and kids that refuse to go are doomed to a life online. I’d prefer school to be seen as part of a fulfilling life, not the only thing that’s important. I think that may bring some balance for everyone and actually when school shrinks to a smaller % of your life, not the whole focus, I’d predict it would become more manageable for more teens.

That’s a kicking the can down the road policy. Get as many people into further education to artificially reduce the number of NEETS.

You make a very good point. In countries with very low levels of NEETS there is a strong link , cooperation and communication between government (general and local), businesses AND educational settings.

Cleaning usually requires insurances and training
Ditto gardening
Nails - several college courses
Car washing - would you really let a random kid wash your car and would you really pay them NMW for their time?
Insect breeding - really?!
Crafts - hardly anyone makes money from crafting!
Vinted - they need stuff to sell!

Youth unemployment is nothing new. The report below, although a little dated, gives a brief history of government led initiatives to tackle youth unemployment over the past fifty years, since the collapse of the distinct youth labour market in the nineteen seventies, to strategies in the early 2020s.

Youthunemploymentreport_final2.pdf

To compound matters today, traditional patterns of work are now changing. The Office of National Statistics recently published figures showing that 1.3 million people in the UK now have a second job. Many of these people are in their late teens and twenties.

Why millions of workers are taking second jobs to cope - BBC News

In fact, when I was visiting my son in hospital last week, a young man came to clean the room. He told us that when he finished his shift at the hospital, he would start his second job as a night cleaner for another company. He was also trying to set up his own business.

Then, we have AI, an increasing number of people working well past 'traditional' retirement age (including me) (I know this issue is complex and it is not a case of older people preventing young people gaining employment), the rise of the gig economy and other factors such as cuts to services which supported young people in career choice and post-16 options.

My son is in hospital because he has a serious mental illness. Like his older brother, he does not appear on the 'NEET' statistics because he is not well enough to work. Yet, poor mental health must contribute to some extent to the NEET statistics for young people. Poor mental health can become unmanageable and result in poor educational outcomes and incapacity to work if it is not supported in a timely and effective manner. Cuts to mental health and social services for young people over the years has surely not helped.

Young people are not 'slackers'. Nor are they any less resilient than young people of other generations. Each generation has its own particular barriers to overcome and opportunities to embrace. In my opinion, young people, and all people entering the employment market, are facing an economic and employment context much more similar to that of the Victorian age than the more stable and predictable conditions of the mid to late twentieth century. Added to that are huge changes in society, technology, mental and emotional load, and the effects of decades of cuts to services. In my case, the ability to work flexibly from home has enabled me to support my sons in ways that would not be possible without recent technological innovations. Therefore 'safetyism' - mentioned below- could also contribute to some young people being able to survive without paid employment:

Understanding the crisis in young people’s mental health - The Health Foundation

I am in grave danger of writing an essay here, so I will just end by saying youth unemployment is nothing new, but the 21st century is presenting new challenges and we are still working out a viable response to these.

My son is 32 and NEET.

Mental and physical health issues but not really diagnosed apart from depression and anxiety.

Has not completed university. Too anxious to engage with any service fully.

Has been staying on sofas/ doing odd jobs for 9 years. I mean really odd jobs. No skill set at all in particular and only makes a couple of hundred a month on average.

Can't even get him to claim benefits as looking for a job makes him anxious.

See above.

it’s not about the activities. It’s about the skills you learn from doing something / anything outside of school.
Teamwork, communication with people who are different to you, mixing with different ages etc.
Real-world interaction with other people where you can learn how to read body language, hold a conversation, ask for what you want etc.

At the most basic level - compare the value of going to a cafe and ordering a meal surrounded by others, chatting to the waitress etc. Versus ordering and paying for Just Eat on your phone and then eating in your bedroom. Ok this might be a ridiculously tiny example, but if you compound that difference over many years & situations then the outcomes are very different. A 10 year old who looks at a menu and confidently orders is already on an easier path to success in the world.

How many people are goung to buy home cooked meals from a 16 year old?
They wont have the relevant quallifications at that age ?

I have a young relative who wants this type of role. Hes 17, can't drive and so can't get a job, as they all want him to have a licence and preferably his own car. Paying for the lessons alone is a huge stretch for his parents.

My 18 yo son is finishing college next month, and may be NEET. He applied for loads of apprenticeships but was turned down - one had 300 applicants. His mental health isn't good, he has autism and adhd, and he's struggled this year, but on the final push to finish college.

He is on screens too much at home, but he does go out and meet friends, do some sport and has asked if he can join the swimming club his brother goes to. He volunteers at Cubs, which will hopefully give him an in when he starts applying for jobs.

Two of his brothers have degrees, and work at Tescos. His older brother also took a while to launch, but is now in a job he loves (minimum wage though, but should be paid far more)

There's lots of warehouses here, so I'm hoping a picking/packing job might be the way for him to start.

I’ve lost count how many times I’ve been sent that link and others like it over the past few years! DD used to love the outdoors and would happily go hiking etc. Now she doesn’t and even getting her into the garden is difficult.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/clypw8gyn18t

Here is the NEET report released just now.