AIBU to feel hurt my son will not visit while my dad lives here?

[Triniette]

So I have been up tossing and turning all night and I have no idea what to do about this.
My dad is 85, he doesn’t have any official diagnosis but he is certainly struggling with memory, controlling what he says and mood swings. He lives with DH and I, he has done since my mum passed away 9 years ago. Other than his state pension he has no income, and very little in the way of savings, my parents never owned a property.
Last week my son who is 27 and his relatively new girlfriend came to visit us.
My son’s new girlfriend has a French mother and an Italian father, her skin tone is notably tan though, perhaps what you would associate with south Italy more than anything.
My dad made a very stupid comment, something along the lines of “gosh aren’t you very dark, you wouldn’t think there was any French in you! You’re darker than some of the Italians I know, are you sure your French-Italian”
Now I don’t think my dad meant this maliciously, however I appreciate that it comes across awfully and his intentions don’t matter all that much if hurt is caused.
My son pulled us aside before they left and said it had upset his girlfriend and could my dad apologise. My dad apologised but it was clearly not all that sincere, I don’t think he believed he did anything wrong.

Today we are having a family get together, my son messaged me yesterday saying he and his girlfriend won’t be attending. There was no reason attached so I replied saying that’s okay, I hope all is well. He replied saying that his granddads comment made his girlfriend feel really uncomfortable and neither of them will be back in the house so long as my dad is still there. I replied saying I was really sorry that she had been made to feel uncomfortable and that I would talk to his granddad again as the last thing I would want is for anyone to feel uncomfortable in our home. My son replied saying it is irrelevant, as the damage is already done.

This is quite out of character for my son but I understand he just wants his girlfriend to feel comfortable.

My husband thinks they are being over dramatic and it’s not a massive deal, my dad apologised etc.

My daughter thinks their reaction is valid.

I feel totally stuck, I don’t know what to do with this, I really don’t want to have a bad relationship with my son or his partner.

AIBU to be really hurt he said they won’t come to our home again? We love hosting and all our family events are hosted at home, so he would be really missed.
What do I do?

Perhaps some posters here spent a lot of time in French schools in the 2010s but for the benefit of the vast majority who I suspect did not, it is hard to overestimate the level of normalised, vitriolic Islamophobia. The gf’s context that she was bullied at school for appearing Middle Eastern has been largely skated over by most posters, OP included.

I can tell you with some confidence that a French child who was bullied for being or appearing to be Muslim at the time of the Charlie Hebdo shooting and the Bataclan massacre (when the gf would have been approx 13) will have had a pretty fucking awful time at school. It’s completely plausible to me that she would be especially sensitive to comments about her skin tone or whether she ‘looks French’ enough.

I’m sorry, @Triniette, but I think your son is doing absolutely the right thing in protecting his girlfriend from more offensive and personal remarks from his grandad. I understand why you are sad that he will not be at family gatherings while his grandad is around, but I think you have to accept his decision, and focus on meeting them without your dad.

I do think you should be absolutely clear with your dad, about how all his comments were too personal, and some were racist and very upsetting for your son’s girlfriend. He needs to know the damage he has done.

@Triniette she’s gone OTT for sure. She could have easily put this down to his age and moved on but she’s decided to cause a rift in the family.

Carry on as normal and let them get on with their choice. Hopefully, 🤞, they don’t last!

@ChalkOutlineshe's unwell and elderly. It depends how the accent comment was made. Gentle ribbing - ok. "What's wrong with you, why can't you talk properly" - not ok.

It's not racist though is it. He's commenting on skin tone rather than criticising her race or ethnicity or religion

NO it is not "Just something that happens when people are very elderly" and elderly people are not by definition "stuck in their ways"

I'm a pasty white middle aged culchie from the mostly monochrome wilds of Northern Ireland and even I know that "You're very dark, are you sure you're French Italian?" is racist AF.

Also her inability to "pronounce things properly"

its entirely possible that he won't understand this if he is unwell....even possible that he won't remember being told.

Your father made a racist comment to your son's gf along with a lot of other critical comments and they didn't care for that so they're staying away.

Thete were both microaggessions towards her, he made a negative remark about her speech, and an aggressive comment on her skin tone and questioning her ancestry.

Yes, you're unreasonable expecting his to ignore that and come around like everything's fine. It's not.

He may be old and unwell but that's no reason she has to subject herself to negative and racist comments and your son agrees.

No she didn't - I've just reread to check.

Only when her son spelled out later why they wouldn't be attending a future family gathering including the grandfather did she acknowledge the inappropriate comments at all.

Exactly. It's completely disingenuous to pretend not to understand this.

Has your father always been like this? He sounds just like my father in law - thinks it is okay to make personal comments, is racist, sexist and every other ist you can think of. He now blames it on being 86 - he was like this 30 years ago when I first met him. I pull him up constantly and often walk out when he starts. One of my daughters refuses to see him and I only go for my mother in law's sake as I like her and she does have dementia so needs extra support.

He needs speaking too. He has no formal diagnosis of dementia and until he does he is being a rude, old man.

Good for your son for standing up for his girlfriebd,

Yes, but this elderly man with cognitive decline is not responsible for that, nor does he know anything about it. Does this young woman not have any grandparents of her own? Longevity in Italy especially is a definite thing.
What if, instead of an elderly grandfather with cognitive decline, your son had a younger brother with an intellectual impairment or ND which made him say things which weren’t socially acceptable? Would it be ok for the girlfriend and son to take umbrage and stay away in those circumstances? Most Mumsnetters would be accusing them of ableism pretty quickly.

Still doesn't explain how a pronunciation is racist

Yet he understood enough to only target the girlfriend, stop (at least for a while) when OP's son told him to stop and also understood enough to apologise and not mean it because he understood the situation enough to not believe he did anything wrong.

This. Your Dad sounds rude and obnoxious. Also like people don’t typically challenge him about his behaviour, more it’s dismissed and minimised. Good on your son and his girlfriend for having some healthy boundaries

“You’re too dark to be French”, “you must never eat”, “it’s funny how you say X’s name”.

Gentle ribbing? Really.

That’s just old people for you… replace that with

That’s just black people?
Thats just Pakistani people?
Thats just travellers?
Thats just Muslims?
Thats just Jews?

We going to start making sweeping statements about that’s just that group of people again.

But no no old people aye they just can’t help themselves didn’t grow up civilised obviously

🙄 🤣

Exactly! There are plenty of older / elderly people who are not offensive or racist, but the ones that are like that have always been like that. Dementia, even though in this case it seems to be self diagnosed in an attempt to justify the behaviour, doesn’t make people offensive or racist if they weren’t to start with.

I think the OP needs a strategy for building bridges with her son and his girlfriend that don’t involve the presence of the grandfather.

Perhaps in time the girlfriend will be more accommodating of his racism and be happy to visit, but I doubt it. And not should she be made to feel guilty about it.

I'm sorry you are caught in the middle of this tricky situation.

Your DS needs to grow up and learn how bloody hard and stressful it is looking after people with dementia. MIL accused us of all sorts of things, stealing, hiding things, coming into her house at night. She complained to the GP and we were banned from seeing her until the police had checked things out.

Its easy enough to avoid an individual in a family gathering, especially an old.

I’m pretty sure that the elderly man with cognitive decline isn’t reading this thread and I’m not posting for his benefit. I’m providing important context for the many many posters who have dismissed the girlfriend’s reaction as overly sensitive.

This is a busy thread but I posted further up about Italian and French attitudes to the elderly (I am half Italian and taught in France for a while). I know that the son and girlfriend’s position would be considered pretty nuclear in those cultural contexts, which leads me to wonder if the comments were perhaps even worse than OP has told us in her updates.

I think it's ok to meet your son and GF elsewhere for a bit until she feels more comfortable with your family. There are many other places you can meet.

Younger generations tend to take things very personally.
What your Dad said was tactless and rather rude, but scarcely unforgivable.
Let them bow out- but don't feel badly about it.
Your Dad is from a different era and if your son's girlfriend can't appreciate that then she will have far bigger problems in life than this one.
Using the excuse of being "triggered" is becoming lamentably common- we are all buffetted by life, you have to get over it, it's what life experience is about.

🙄How has the girlfriend caused a rift in the family?! Jesus christ, you've jumped over a lot of obstacles to pin the blame on her. It was the Granddad who made several inappropriate comments. The girlfriend simply decided not to put herself in a situation where she would be subjected to that bad experience again by declining another invitationto vist. OP's ADULT DS made the decision to support the GF and not visit either.