AIBU to feel hurt my son will not visit while my dad lives here?

[Triniette]

So I have been up tossing and turning all night and I have no idea what to do about this.
My dad is 85, he doesn’t have any official diagnosis but he is certainly struggling with memory, controlling what he says and mood swings. He lives with DH and I, he has done since my mum passed away 9 years ago. Other than his state pension he has no income, and very little in the way of savings, my parents never owned a property.
Last week my son who is 27 and his relatively new girlfriend came to visit us.
My son’s new girlfriend has a French mother and an Italian father, her skin tone is notably tan though, perhaps what you would associate with south Italy more than anything.
My dad made a very stupid comment, something along the lines of “gosh aren’t you very dark, you wouldn’t think there was any French in you! You’re darker than some of the Italians I know, are you sure your French-Italian”
Now I don’t think my dad meant this maliciously, however I appreciate that it comes across awfully and his intentions don’t matter all that much if hurt is caused.
My son pulled us aside before they left and said it had upset his girlfriend and could my dad apologise. My dad apologised but it was clearly not all that sincere, I don’t think he believed he did anything wrong.

Today we are having a family get together, my son messaged me yesterday saying he and his girlfriend won’t be attending. There was no reason attached so I replied saying that’s okay, I hope all is well. He replied saying that his granddads comment made his girlfriend feel really uncomfortable and neither of them will be back in the house so long as my dad is still there. I replied saying I was really sorry that she had been made to feel uncomfortable and that I would talk to his granddad again as the last thing I would want is for anyone to feel uncomfortable in our home. My son replied saying it is irrelevant, as the damage is already done.

This is quite out of character for my son but I understand he just wants his girlfriend to feel comfortable.

My husband thinks they are being over dramatic and it’s not a massive deal, my dad apologised etc.

My daughter thinks their reaction is valid.

I feel totally stuck, I don’t know what to do with this, I really don’t want to have a bad relationship with my son or his partner.

AIBU to be really hurt he said they won’t come to our home again? We love hosting and all our family events are hosted at home, so he would be really missed.
What do I do?

He didn’t say what he saw. He didn’t say you’re dark/tan/olive skinned /whatever. He said she’s too dark to be French/Italian. Then pushed it that little bit further asked her if she’s sure of her heritage. That’s not saying what you see.

I don’t think that poster grasps the levels of normalised Islamophobia in many parts of France, often concealed as secularism. Being bullied for looking Middle Eastern in a French school in the 2010s will very likely mean that she spent a large chunk of her childhood being called a terrorist.

I can see how his constant remarks became grating. I personally would have let it go but I do think most 24 year olds these days wouldn’t, they have a much lower threshold to tolerate this sort of behaviour (and good for them, I guess).

However this is on your son, he could easily go without bringing his girlfriend.

I agree actually. It’s one thing if she stays away, but she shouldn’t stop him from seeing his family. Especially as his grandfather is obviously unwell.

Well lots of people are excusing grandfather's behaviour because of his age.

For me this would be "family meeting" territory - at least with with DS, DD, DH, maybe GF or other family members - how do the rest of us cope with granddad's behaviour so that everyone feels welcome and no-one has to be at the sharp end of his remarks without a rescue attempt? People are usually willing to make some allowances if it's clear that everyone's looking out for each other.

Regardless, if OP's dad does have dementia and the first signs of it manifesting in him were thoughtless and rude comments then SURELY at some point or another her family would have noticed this being directed towards them too.

If this truly was dementia then his rudeness would be being experienced by everyone in the family. But the OP doesnt mention this.

OP- is your dad also making rude comments towards other people in the family or other people when out and about?....

My dad says things like this and I call him out on it every time as it’s unacceptable.

I am proud of your son and would totally do the same thing as him, especially as his behavior seems to to continuously excused as “that’s how grandpa is!”

I am brown (half French born and raised in France ironically though I live abroad) and had taxi driver tell me 2 days ago, “no way you are French, you don’t look very French.”
That is SO insulting to me, let alone racist. It’s people insisting I am more African than French because I don’t suit their perception of what a French person looks like and it’s ironically people who aren’t French and who have no clue what people in France actually look like and the diversity of it all. The irony is I was born in France, raised in France never stepped a foot into my bio dad’s country.

The fact that people feel entitled to tell me I don’t look French yet feel completely okay if I say I am half African as it suits more what they envision me to be makes me rage.

As for the rest of his comments, I cannot believe that your son had to take you aside to let you know she was offended, your dad was purposefully offensive the whole time she was there mocking her in various ways and you needed to be told he was offensive? How come you didn’t step in and told your dad if he couldn’t be civil he could leave.

If it was my grandparents (and they can be problematic if they chose to be) I would be horrified especially at the fake apology and wouldn’t ever want my partner or I to go through that again so would take a similar decision. I also wouldn't want to go to my partner’s parents if that was the kind of treatment I was expected to receive and had received.

is your dad always tactless? @Triniette

“My husband thinks they are being over dramatic and it’s not a massive deal, my dad apologised etc.
My daughter thinks their reaction is valid.”

OP, you need to ask your DS what can be done to make the situation better. If your DD agrees with your DS, clearly what was said is unacceptable. Can you speak to your DS’s GF and explain that DGF didn’t mean anything by it, and that you were mortified by his comments and are being made very unhappy by their refusal to join in with family events? They must see that from your POV, you can’t exactly turn DGF out into the street, and that they are punishing you more than DGF (who probably couldn’t care less whether they visit or not). I would also be having strong words with DGF about how he has alienated you from your DS and how he needs to be more careful about what he says. Frankly, remarks about people’s appearance are always likely to cause upset and are very much best left unsaid.

Surprised by many of these responses.

It doesn’t matter if he was being malicious or not.
He made them feel uncomfortable so they choose to avoid him - that’s very sensible of them.

We used to have a family friend who would talk about my weight.
It wasn’t in a bad way, in fact I think he liked it but I felt uncomfortable that all eyes would be on me talking about my body and it made me incredibly self conscious, even though the majority of people were my own family.

So I stopped going to see him.
My mum went mad but I dug my heels in and said I wasn’t going.

I’ll never make myself feel like crap and uncomfortable just to appease other people, which is what posters are suggesting DS and the gf does.

Can we be honest about the MN response that the gf would get if she posted here on the Relationships board that she had met her new in-laws for the first time and been on the receiving end of multiple personal comments from Granddad? She would be told to nip it in the bud; that if her boyfriend didn’t support her it would be a ‘DP problem’; to make sure this behaviour stops now before bringing any children into this context; to consider going LC or NC, and to reconsider the relationship full stop.

That's a good idea. I like the 'how do the rest of us cope..' question.

Don’t be silly. The grandfather is getting quite elderly. When my mother was over 90 she said all sorts of offensive things and I found myself apologising for her. I wasn’t going to have an argument with her at that stage but no way would I have come out with anything similar or even thought it.
OP , you can’t do anything but say to your son that he and his girlfriend are always welcome and will be missed and that you’re very sorry about his grandfather offending the girlfriend. I would meet them occasionally at a neutral place without your father and try to get to know her.

It sounds like it wasn’t just the skin tone, he was a bit critical overall and made her feel uncomfortable. Of course the real solution is your son comes on his own periodically - my now late mil was not the easiest so I’d suggest dh visited without me unless I was in the mood for her comments. (She didn’t think I was good enough as I’m state educated from hmmm working class stock!)

It sounds as if your sons girlfriend was made to feel very unwelcome. I'm surprised they didn't leave early. Why not suggest you, DH and dsis meet up at a restaurant next time leave your Dad at home. Your DS was right to stand up for his gf. You should have said something to your Dad at the time when he was making rude comments. You could have said that's enough Dad. Be quiet.

If this truly was dementia then his rudeness would be being experienced by everyone in the family.

Really not true. Dementia presents differently in different people.

She was on the receiving end of quite a few my dads comments

Sounds like there's a lot more to it, then and that you're minimising. Doesn't sound like a one off comment and that it was pretty constant!

Yes this is also true!

People are quick to say "you have a DH problem" well in this case the OP was the problem. Why didnt the OP stop her dad saying these things?

I would be absolutely mortified if my father was commenting on my son's GF's skin colour, asking her about her weight and laughing at her pronunciation and I would be shutting it down immediately. Its bloody rude.

If I was the son I would feel gutted that my own mother didnt back me up and say to her father "dad, thats enough- stop it". She could have easily done that but it sounds like noone in the family bothered to do anything at all- they sat there like lemons watching him be rude as if it was some kind of horrible entertainment

I disagree- something would have been noticed. If this is literally the ONLY thing suggestive of dementia then it's probably not dementia. Dementia isnt diagnosed on a few rude comments directed to one sole person. If it were, then half of the UK would have dementia

It isn’t really ageist to cut the grandfather a bit of slack because of his age, what would be ageist is to generalise that all very old people are racist and rude. This person is an individual.
I would tell him about the hurt he has caused everyone if I was in OP’s shoes but she can’t exactly tell him to leave and I doubt he’ll be very receptive to criticism.

OP,
If it wasn't for his age, those remarks were awful.
Rude, embarrassing and relentless.
But her being triggered isn't your responsibility.

Your father is very rude, and it is understandable that she has said no thanks.

In your place with a son that age, I would apologise and agree that he is a nightmare and .

I would say...." we feel awful. She's such a great young woman and we are so upset she didn't feel welcome.

He is an old man and we are looking after him and that is not something we can change.

We will miss you both terribly at gatherings but of course we completely respect your choice."

Hopefully things will calm down, but long term your best play is to respect him and her and how they feel.

Definitely make arrangements to see them outside the house.
Don't argue the point.
Respect their decision.

This is very good advice.

My own DF was quite adept at making insensitive remarks which far too often fell into the offensive bracket. He was never diagnosed with dementia but clearly was at the start of it when he died, but for most of his life he seemed to think he had a god given right to make personal comments about their weight, fashion choices, life choices… the list was endless. He got worse as he got older.

My DNeice’s DH is mixed race who was far too kind with DF and just used to ignore his comments and change the subject, for the sake of his DW who was very close to her family.

If your DS previously had a close relationship with your DF he may soften his stance regarding visiting but that will be up to him.

For now you need to be the flexible one here and change the formats of how you continue to keep contact with your DS, and by extension his GF. You never know, you might enjoy the new arrangements instead of always hosting.

Just one question, @Triniette, have you told your DF what’s happened and had any discussion with him about how much fallout his comments have caused?

Er, are you insinuating that there is something unnatural, masculine or unattractive about being darker skinned? Because all of your examples are specifically insulting. If someone asks me about my heritage or comments on the colour of my skin which is a matter of fact and not in any way a negative, then I am not offended. Of course about 40-45% of people seem to think this cause for offence, but on mumsnet “commenting on someone’s appearance” in any way is considered rude.

Saying you’re very tall and you’re very slim are not insults. Saying you have the physical frame of the opposite sex is not at all the same.

Saying you have dark skin is not an insult. Why would you think it is?