AIBU to feel hurt my son will not visit while my dad lives here?

[Triniette]

So I have been up tossing and turning all night and I have no idea what to do about this.
My dad is 85, he doesn’t have any official diagnosis but he is certainly struggling with memory, controlling what he says and mood swings. He lives with DH and I, he has done since my mum passed away 9 years ago. Other than his state pension he has no income, and very little in the way of savings, my parents never owned a property.
Last week my son who is 27 and his relatively new girlfriend came to visit us.
My son’s new girlfriend has a French mother and an Italian father, her skin tone is notably tan though, perhaps what you would associate with south Italy more than anything.
My dad made a very stupid comment, something along the lines of “gosh aren’t you very dark, you wouldn’t think there was any French in you! You’re darker than some of the Italians I know, are you sure your French-Italian”
Now I don’t think my dad meant this maliciously, however I appreciate that it comes across awfully and his intentions don’t matter all that much if hurt is caused.
My son pulled us aside before they left and said it had upset his girlfriend and could my dad apologise. My dad apologised but it was clearly not all that sincere, I don’t think he believed he did anything wrong.

Today we are having a family get together, my son messaged me yesterday saying he and his girlfriend won’t be attending. There was no reason attached so I replied saying that’s okay, I hope all is well. He replied saying that his granddads comment made his girlfriend feel really uncomfortable and neither of them will be back in the house so long as my dad is still there. I replied saying I was really sorry that she had been made to feel uncomfortable and that I would talk to his granddad again as the last thing I would want is for anyone to feel uncomfortable in our home. My son replied saying it is irrelevant, as the damage is already done.

This is quite out of character for my son but I understand he just wants his girlfriend to feel comfortable.

My husband thinks they are being over dramatic and it’s not a massive deal, my dad apologised etc.

My daughter thinks their reaction is valid.

I feel totally stuck, I don’t know what to do with this, I really don’t want to have a bad relationship with my son or his partner.

AIBU to be really hurt he said they won’t come to our home again? We love hosting and all our family events are hosted at home, so he would be really missed.
What do I do?

Well, if he apologised and won't do it again, I'd be inclined to let it go.
Is nobody deserving of forgiveness anymore?
It's like you make 1 mistake and that's it forever
Very sad

Completely agree with you! It’s not racist to say someone is dark. Dark and lovely is obviously what he meant 😉

OP I can understand why your DS's girlfriend feels as she does. It sounds as if she was subject to a whole barrage of comments from your DD and by the end of the day she must have felt really picked on and embarrassed.

I am really tall and have been my height since 14 (i'm now 54). I get the occasional comment now but nothing like I used to when young. Even though most people said it was a good thing to be tall I still hated people drawing attention to it. Your DS's girlfriend had all the additional comments made to her too. She must have felt exhausted.

You say that your DS told him to stop. Why didn't you or your DH tell him he was being rude at the time and to stop? It would worry me that your DH was so dismissive of it as you also seem to be. You seem to be upset now because of what your son has said about not visiting rather than what was said to his girlfriend at the time.

This can't be excused as him just being old. If you suspect he has dementia then he needs an initial gp appointment to get a diagnosis.

In the meantime you need to shut down any unwelcome comments to anyone whether family or visitors. It seems like your DD has a better handle on the situation and maybe she can speak to your DS.

I'm sure given time your DS will want to visit again and this relationship may not last very long. However in the meantime something needs to done about your father's behavior.

As a black woman he is NBU and I'm aghast but not surprised at pp's comments condoning racism.

When OP clearly states he doesn’t have a diagnosis and doesn’t mention he’s in the process of obtaining one, I’d say it’s more reasonable to assume he doesn’t than to assume he does.

I regularly get asked (including by own extended family members) where my DDs blond hair comes from.

So I see this comment in the same category as this, however blond hair isn't generally discriminated against (although blond bimbos was a frequent insult in the past - so not immune from it).

I think your son needs to be cautious of becoming alienated from his family, and you need to reign your dad in a little.

If your dad constantly put her down and made rude comments then your son is absolutely right to not return with her. She doesn't have to put up with that shit, memory issues or not.
If he said exactly what you've wrote, I wouldn't call that racist - unless said in a negative way.
But why can't he go without the girlfriend sometimes?

Apologies. First paragraph of previous post should refer to comments from father and not DD.

its sounds more to me like illness than nastiness. I am right on the fence about this. From experience, in one way its easier to hear people with dementia say innappropriate things if you know them before they are ill. Please note I said "EASIER" and not "EASY" I mean that it can help to know that its the illness speaking and not the person. Agony to see them like it but at least (mostly) you know its the illness talking and not the beloved parent.
For the GF its different as he is stranger to her. She may not know about or understand dementia. Her boyfriend is right down the middle, he wants to defend her and support her, he doesn't live at home so may not have been exposed to his grandfather's behaviour as much as his parents and again may not understand about dementia because honestly many people still do not (I am a retired NHS professional)
Its a sad situation which I hope can be resolved without breaking up a family

and I'd say that whether or not he has a formal diagnosis is not relevant unless he has been an unpleasant person all his life. Also worth keeping in mind that even a slight stroke can also trigger disinhibited conversation and behaviour.

Lack of diagnosis doesn't mean he hasn't got it. Would you say a child wasn't autistic until they got a diagnosis?

My Dad was never actually diagnosed (we did ask but Covid lockdowns gave GP excuse not to) but he went from my lovely, gentle dad to a violent, aggressive man who couldn't recognise me. This took about 3 years, but the signs were definitely there - in retrospect - some years before that. And one of those signs was loss of social filter - he'd been a man who wouldn't dream of hurting anyone and so was careful with his words.

We had a family gathering a while ago where an older family member said to a girlfriend (who was meeting the whole family for the first time) "Are you jewish? You have a jewish nose! Do you have jewish parents?"
Yes, the family member is old and may be or not may be starting to have dementia.
But we all immediately shouted her down and said "that's really unaceptable to say. Stop being so rude" and apologized to the girlfriend. And then distracted the old family member away from the girlfriend.
While it's still not a nice thing to happen to the girlfriend, I really hope it was clear to her that we don't expect her to just put up with it.
(And we don't leave kids or people who are new to the family alone with said family member because we know that she will sometimes be inappropriate in what she says)

Oh dear, I'm not surprised your son's girlfriend doesn't want to come back. Your Dad commented on her height, size and skin tone! Does your Dad have no social awareness at all? Is this type of behaviour common? I understand he's having issues with his memory, is that age related memory or something similar to dementia? Did he used to have a filter but now doesn't?

Are you new to Mumsnet? Happens all the time here.

Some of the comments here are beyond belief. And from what @Triniette has said, the only one to challenge the grandfather was in fact her son. Certainly she doesn't appear to have said anything to him and neither did her husband.

And I bet that lady didn’t refuse to come ever again. Because you had her back, called it out and showed her that even if she might be exposed to unpleasantness, everyone is prepared to step up . That’s the main difference.

Every single person with dementia went through a period - often quite lengthy - when they had symptoms but no diagnosis.

There’s a lot of ignorance about dementia on this thread. Dementia isn’t alcohol, it doesn’t just “lower your inhibitions”. There are several forms of it and it can change personality. My dad used to be incredibly adventurous with food; he travelled all over the world and was fascinated by different cultures and cuisines. Now he’s critical and disdainful about anything that isn’t English and covered in gravy. I grew up going to folk festivals with him, sleeping in the back of a van, he was a free-spirited hippie who hated authority and rules. He championed his daughters’ education and independence and campaigned for equality. Now he refuses to eat a sandwich unless he’s sitting at a table with a knife and fork, and tuts disapprovingly if I “talk back” to DH.

It’s hard enough watching the person you love disappear piece by piece, without having a load of ignorant MN posters proclaim that he must just be an incurable arsehole because he doesn’t have a diagnosis.

I don’t think the son and girlfriend are wrong to hold their own boundaries, but it’s not OP’s fault, and it doesn’t mean anyone in this very difficult situation is a bad person.

Culturally speaking, multigenerational living is much more common in France and particularly in Italy than in the UK and there are pretty high expectations of younger people to defer to their elders. No longer visiting while the grandparent lives in the house would be an absolutely nuclear choice in Italy. Honestly, it does make me wonder if there’s even more to this than the drip-feed we’ve already had.

Taking your additional comments into account, I’m with your son and his girlfriend.

If your dad was asked to stop by your son, he did, but then continued with such comments, well how would you have felt in her shoes?

i understand dementia can affect their thinking and what they say but I would do some socials out (pub / restaurant) so your son and girlfriend can attend without your dad being there. The other family members that don’t want to do that can join you at your next one at yours. ((you can’t please everyone all of the time)).

Good for your son for sticking up for his girlfriend.

I have to add that I take my hat off to you for having your dad live with you with dementia, it’s a horrible disease and is soul destroying not only for the person with it, but the family too.

Your father is 85 yrs old and made an inappropriate comment for which he apologised. I don’t think the comment was racist - he was stating a fact that her skin tone is darker than he expected for her heritage. It’s rude - as it would be if he had for example called her fat or commented on bad skin- but not racist.
I see from a previous post of the OP that the GF was “ triggered “ because people in school mistook her for being Middle Eastern. Her reaction at being mistaken for Middle Eastern is way more racist! My sister also looks Middle Eastern and people would often comment about this . She found this interesting and wondered if there was any Middle Eastern connection back I our family tree. My parents were also intrigued. The GF’s attitude to skin tone is an issue here .
They are adults who need to grow up and who should accept an apology from an elderly man. The GF sounds controlling - now trying to isolate your son from his family

He apologised , but was made to and even by OP’s admission, didn’t mean it. How can anyone guarantee he won’t do it again? Either he has dementia and can’t help it(OP’s cop out) or he can.

He wasn't being racist he was saying what he saw . The gf is a drama queen and it's given her the excuse to flounce . We all have to make allowances for elderly people with no filter but not for the terminally offended .

You also missed the bit where being mistaken for Middle Eastern meant she was bullied for it! Isn’t it funny how we just see what we want to see?

Just like the grandad with “you’re too tanned to be French” bs.

I'm sorry for you OP. Because you are trying to do the best by everyone, yet will end up being the one who loses out. If your son won't visit again while his grandfather lives with you, then you will have to suffer the loss of his visits.
You are completely between a rock and a hard place, but I don't see what you can do about it. Your father isn't willing (or perhaps able) to avoid offending, and your son is not prepared to risk his girl friend being offended.
You will have to see them elsewhere.

surely he can come without his girlfriend?
she was triggered by his words
i am sure she will get similar words repeated to her
if she wont return then so be it