To be absolutely depressed by parenting

[checktheoil]

I don’t know if it’s just me. It often feels like it but I am absolutely depressed by parenting mine. It feels like there’s nothing good; every day longing for them to go to bed and then the same shitshow starts again the next day!

Exactly, if we actually ‘made ourselves unavailable’ what then happens when they ask for a drink or help using the potty? Do we ignore this? Because I bet my bottom dollar that would also be very frowned upon.

Oh come on. There are plenty of strict consequences that don't involve abuse. Jeez

There isn’t and I kind of wish people were more honest about this. I don’t like it and I’m not saying I want a return to those days because I don’t, but I wish people were honest that this means sometimes there’s not a whole lot you can do about your child’s behaviour other than wait for them to come out of a particular stage.

TBF that all sounds like more fun than puzzles and baking anyway (maybe minus the sand over head incase it gets in eyes) 🤣

Mine is 6 with additional needs so late nights, broken nights, early starts, zoomies and repetitive questions/monologues are basically our base line.

Whilst I can honestly say I've never "hated" any stage, I will say we've had to find our rhythm to get by and it's always changing. We're currently in a caravan, having a fab time despite him not sleeping until almost 11pm (heat, different place etc making sleep even more tricky than usual) but I remember being away with him when he was 4 and almost coming home about 3 times because everything just felt like a disaster.

Please give me some then. An immediate one, that a 2/3 year old will get: not ‘in four hours, at 10am, we will not be going to the park.’

MN has very unrealistic ideas about what actually works to manage this sort of behaviour. I’ve never found any advice actually practical or helpful.

My 5 year old is relentless so I feel you. What I do is try to distract as much as possible - if it takes a bit of mess then so be it as long as I get some peace. For example I let her fill up the sink and play with her toys in the bathroom. I bought a rock painting kit and then we hid them in the park. I bought cheap items (she’s into KPop Demon Hunters at the moment so I bought little sticker packs and mystery figurines, and also bubbles and a football) to use as either bribes or threats, e.g if you don’t walk with me nicely or you don’t play nicely, you won’t get to have my mystery prize. It kept her curious and well behaved so that she could find out what they were, and then kept her entertained afterwards.

In regards to the sleep issue, unfortunately kids just have boundless energy that simply has to start at 4am - I went through it with DD from about 18 months and she still wakes around 5 now. I ended up sticking the telly on until my wake up time. People who moan about screen time don’t know what it’s like to have it as the only option to get some bloody sleep.

Sorry but this made me think of the Katie Kirby cartoon…..

Can you give some specific ones?

Thanks @vanillachoc . Posts like that really are helpful because when you’re on a thread and people are acting like it’s as simple just telling them to go back to bed it does make you feel lost! And I feel calmer just having read it ‘itsnotmeitsnotme’ kind of thing.

DD never used to be such an early waker; things have been a bit all over the place for a few weeks. She’s moved to a bed from a cot and at first that caused a bit of unsettled nights but now seems to have switched to mornings, it’s normally 6ish but these 530 starts are horrible.

They aren’t too bad alone but together just scream and work one another up and swipe at one another and take one another’s toys. I hate it, and I hate the fact that they don’t get me at my best. Im such a nice mum to one child 😂

@SusanChurchouse ha I relate to that cartoon

Use a reward system and remove a star/fluffy pom pom or whatever for bad behaviour

Time out chair/zone of the house

Get down to their level and have a stern word in a serious tone of voice

Some stuff I've used (have also been told it's horribly out of date, but, f it, it works)

At 3 they're old enough to understand reward charts and tend to get really into it. So they won't want to lose any of the rewards they've earned. But you also have to make sure they don't wait too long to get something for it, otherwise they'll get bored/lose interest.

The other thing with the Gro Clock is that you need your child to be at a stage with a certain amount of nuance. For example, DD was actually wet this morning (she is potty trained days but not nights) and her nappy was soaked through; obviously she’s been drinking more than usual in the hot weather.

So while we may all disagree on parenting styles I know no one is advocating a child being wet and uncomfortable so those circumstances it’s OK to come out of your room or call for mummy to help. But explaining yes it’s OK when you’re wet but not when you’re just bored or whatever … that’s a sophisticated sort of reasoning that two year olds just don’t have; it only really starts closer to four I would say.

Did one for potty training, he didn’t care.

I do all the other things every day. They don’t care.

Why don’t you eat with them? We always eat at 6 with our toddler. Not relaxing but it leaves more evening once shes asleep between 7.30-8.

My DD doesn’t ask questions nicely. I get this (always when I’m trying to do something very important and time sensitive):

DD: Mummy
Mummy
Mummy
Mummy

Me: What?

DD: How old are you?

Me: I’m- (trying to answer)

DD: Mummy I’m talking.
How old are you?

Me: You ask me this 5 times a day. I’m 23.

DD: No you’re not.

Many times a day I want to tell her to fuck off.

Literally none of those are immediate, uncomfortable and frightening though. Possibly the last one for some children, but then you have the problem that I’ve described above; sometimes it is OK to get out of bed and find your grown up.

Mine aren’t terrible children but they are so stupid together that they forget themselves and bring out one another’s worst traits. Reward charts are hit and miss. I have one for ds(5) to motivate him with reading to me; every time he does he gets a marble in a jar and each marble is £1 but that works as it’s so specific. And it’s purely motivational.

Increasingly I am thinking 2/3 year olds are a law unto themselves! I do actually remember ds being a PITA at this age and he’s OK now; lots of energy though but that’s fine.

This is cathartic but ds has a sort of stammer / stutter thing. It’s got a lot better lately but at one point he’d get stuck on the same word / phrase for ages like a malfunctioning computer so he’d want to say something like ‘mummy, I wanted to play with Theo today but Evie said I couldn’t.’ Which is reasonable.

But he’d get stuck so you’d get ‘mummy … mummy … mummy you know. Mummy, mummy … mummy Theo was, Theo, mummy, you know Theo was … mummy … Theo was … mummy I was, I was, I was, mummy …’

And I am stood there wanting to say ‘ds is it fucking worth me making any plans for my future?’ as dd squawks at me and I’m trying to cook dinner!

Two low sleep needs kids here so you have my utmost sympathy regarding the sleep deprivation/late nights/broken nights/early mornings!

Average sleep needs for a 5 year old start at just 10hrs in total per 24hrs and as little as 8hrs is considered low, but still quite normal - for a 3 year old these figures are 11hrs and 9hrs respectively. So if you're putting them to bed before 8pm then a low sleep a needs five year old may genuinely have had enough sleep by 4am and the three year old by 5am, that 8/9hrs may actually be all they need.

We eat early with the kids (in practice, this means that on weekdays I eat early with the kids and my husband eats alone when he gets home - we sort of accepted that family meal times aren't possible currently) and then do as much clearing up as possible before bath time so there's less to do once they're down. We also each sit with one while they go to sleep so we get some of the nice one-to-one time (I especially value this now that the older one is a bit older as she often shares her worries and things at this time) and I think having that time sitting together listening to a kids' sleep meditation fills up their connection cups a bit so they're easier the next day. My husband often falls asleep during this bit! He does the overnights/early mornings and has the weekend lie ins (he's asleep now). We used to do it the other way round, whatever works for everyone to get sufficient sleep to be functional.

I also get every overwhelmed by the constant noise/barrage of talking. I will often say, "Mummy needs five minutes with no talking" and put a timer on Alexa (they accept timings much better from the tech than from us). Loop earphones are a lifesaver for toning it down a bit. As others have said you don't have to answer every question, you can just give a running commentary on what you're doing a lot of the time.

Do you have one of those small trampolines? Having one indoors was amazing at that stage where they clambered on everything. During school holidays we do breakfast, clearing up, get washed and dressed and go OUT, then their behaviour is much easier to manage in the afternoons. Sometimes I struggle to get us out in the morning and then regret it later on in the day...

It is absolutely relentless at that age but it goes get easier, ours are early/mid-primary age now and I do monthly cocktails with some other school mums, I'm in a book club, I go to the gym. Do you have a sense of a single change you could make that would really help you - weekly walk alone for half an hour, nap on Sunday afternoons, fortnightly phonecall with your best friend? It does get MUCH easier but I appreciate that does not help in the moment!

I age one year by the time mine finishes a sentence.

Sympathy. It does get easier as they get older. I would repeat ‘it’s just a phase, it’s just a phase’ to myself over and over from ages 1-3. Even now (3 and 7) their main aims in life are to wind each other up. Drives me spare.

We divide and conquer when possible, as each of them is much more delightful when they have 1 on 1 attention with a parent.

We also have no tv or screens, which I appreciate will seem completely unrealistic for many families. For us it was making behaviour so much worse and while the first few weeks of the ban were harrowing it has paid absolute dividends on their behaviour, ability to entertain themselves and general noise in the house.

It is really tough when they are little, but they soon grow. I know you don’t see it at the time. I hate to tell you this but wait until they are adults, life is much harder, I would swap for little ones any day of the week!

Agreed, it doesn't work at 2 or even just 3. Assuming you've done blackout blinds etc?

5 and 2 is flipping brutal. Relentless and overwhelming. The thing in your power to change is some time alone out of the house and how you react to them.

I have one for ds(5) to motivate him with reading to me; every time he does he gets a marble in a jar and each marble is £1 but that works as it’s so specific. And it’s purely motivational.

Blimey.@checktheoil, with that incentive ,I’ll come and read to you as often as you like! And not Biff and Chip, either! Hang on in there, it will get better.

It’s bloody hard work op - at least you’ll have someone to visit you in your nursing home tho

You have to persevere with rewards charts, they don't get them straight away. Keep using it over 3 or 4 weeks and by that point they'll get it. You could also try giving yourself a version of it too. Might make them take more interest.

But any discipline method takes a little bit of time to work. If you give up too quickly then you'll just end up going round in circles.

You could also try immediate removal of their favourite toy for bad behaviour. Or just removal of toys in general. Good behaviour = play time with their chosen toy.

Also one more thing to add. When kids aren't listening, misbehaving constantly, and think that any attempts by the parent to discipline are funny.. to me that indicates that the child a) has too much control and b) is getting something positive out of these situations - whether that's attention from the parent or just more interaction with the parent. You might think, why don't they care, I'm angry/frustrated etc - but to a 3 year old that's still being interpreted as a positive interaction with you.

So you need to model the behaviour that you do want to see. You mentioned earlier your kid would mess about if you tried to bake with them. But you should be setting really clear expectations before you even begin. Sit nicely. Show mummy you're sitting nicely. No grabbing the spoon. Hold it nicely. Show me you can hold the spoon nicely. Any misbehaving - grabbing the spoon, putting hands in the bowl etc - immediately removal of the activity and a time out.

And constantly and consistently reward the good behaviour. Rewards charts really help with this, or as I said previously allow them to play with their favourite/chosen toy for good behaviour.

Male your expectations super clear about every little thing - sitting, waiting their turn, saying please and thank you, keeping hands to themselves etc etc, eating nicely, blah blah.

Immediate small punishment for not following instructions.
Reward the good behaviour- even just sitting nicely. Praise them. They'll quickly learn praise = gets them what they want. So they'll be good because they'll want the praise, and the rewards.
Be consistent all the time, stay in control, be the leader and you will see that you can turn this around.