AIBU to think sex and gender need different terms if distinct?

[sabreslot]

We have been told that sex and gender are not the same thing. So, as the words woman and man describe someone's sex, why are we using the same words to describe someone’s gender identity.

For example, if a man (sex) has a gender identity that is ‘woman’ they are effectively using a word that describes the opposite sex, which they are not.

Surely, if we had a different word to describe people’s genders and indeed if there was a clear definition, as there are with the words that describe sex, many of the arguments around this subject would be put to bed.

With this in mind, could someone please explain to me what gender is if sex and gender are different things.

AIBU - If sex and gender are separate things then we should not use the same words to describe both.

Well - as far as I am concerned, sex and gender ARE two different, distinct terms - people need to use them properly.

But we use the same words, man and woman to describe gender when those words are taken and they refer to sex.

Easy option would be words like feminine/masculine which cover this and the stereotyping inherent in the concept of gender

Effeminate?

Why bother, those words would be co-opted within 1 minutes. We were quite clear on what woman meant, then men started using it to describe themselves. When they were called out on this they decided that ‘woman ‘ is attached to gender not sex so they are right to use it, so we started using ‘female’ more often to be abundantly clear that we meant ‘sex’ as in XX/larger gamete/ uterus etc and now all the men are claiming to be female, so we started tagging it ‘biological female’ and now they’re claiming that they are biological female because they’ve forced their bodies to develop some of the secondary sex characteristics associated with being female and they’re biological entities therefore biologically female. We could ascribe the word ‘exabites’ or ‘schwatsamacallits’ to mean ‘an adult human being who developed along the pathway designed to create large gametes’ and all of a sudden they would all be calling themselves ‘exabites’ or ‘schwatsamacallits’ and coming up with some ridiculous word-salad to explain why they are real ‘exabites’ or ‘schwatsamacallits’.

So no. No. No. No.

I am a woman, a woman is an adult human female, female is a sex class defined as someone who developed along the pathway designed to create large gametes. No more re-naming stuff to try to accommodate the fantasists.

You mean like "personality"?

We could just get rid of gender. That would solve the whole nonsense.

Sex is real

Gender is a religion

We have these words.

Man
Woman
TransMan
TransWoman.

’Trans’ meaning being one sex but identifying as aka adopting a gender recognised or presumed to be the other.

So what word would you propose for “people who adhere to woman-gender” and for “people who adhere to man-gender”. And how the hell do we get people to use them?

Man and woman are not gender identities. I guess trans is a gender identity- or at least a pointer to gender confusion?

man woman male female are all sex based terms.

Effeminate, feminine, masculine, butch, femme… those are probably gender words.

I think it's the words "male" and "female" that are more confusing. They can apply to both sex and gender. "Man" and "woman" refers to sex.

Gender identity is absolutely insanity
there is no such thing as gendered souls
there is male and female
woman and man
thats it
gender woo is how we have ended up in the dystopian mess we’re currently in

I agree

i actually don’t understand what gender is

There’s women, and there’s men.
All the rest is people creating narratives to soothe themselves about their lack of happiness.

You have a good point except personality has a clear definition

perhaps gender could be replaced with ‘impersonating’?

Or better still

Trans identifying Man (TIM)

Trans Identifying Woman (TIW)

which helps to sort out the confusion that some people seem to have in remembering that a transwoman is a man and a transman is a woman.

Yes, and then change the ego assertion of “ identifying” to the more psychologically accurate word ‘ delusion’.

Those words were forced on us. We had no choice, the word woman was just appropriated.

This is what I am trying to explain badly.

We shouldn’t be using trans identifying man or trans identifying woman because they are not identifying as a sex, because, well you can’t.

You can only impersonated a stereotype of a sex surely?

There should be another word like man that 'believes he is something he isn’t'

We shouldn’t be using trans identifying man or trans identifying woman because they are not identifying as a sex, because, well you can’t.

No, a trans identifying man is a biological male (true, that's his sex) who identifies as transgender (true, that's his gender). You don't need to use the sex based word woman at all for him because he's a man.

Exactly.

I probably didn’t explain myself.

Woman = definition of the sex of an adult human female.

So, it should never be used in connection with a man, ever. If a man wants to dress in a way that is not normally associated with men, that person is still a type of man. They can't ever be a woman because that word is a definition of one's sex not a feeling.

Terms should be clear.

So trans identifying man is fine.

I see, you are referring to the man, sorry I thought you were referring the woman as in how people say trans woman but mean a man.

I do not care, while wishing Grayson Perry all possible good in the world.

We have huge issues to spend our brainpower on currently, and what gender someone identifies as is entirely up to them, as long as they adhere to the law on biological sex.