AIBU to think these boys should have been incarcerated?

[newrubylane]

BBC News - Teenage boys sentenced for raping lone girls
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clypg68e2neo

I've never started an AIBU before, but I'm genuinely really shocked. I'm just not sure how this sentence is justifiable. Their actions were premeditated and deliberate, they were carrying a knife and they filmed themselves. They're obviously a danger to women/girls, and probably to other boys too.

If anyone knows how and why this sentence might have come about, I'd be interested to hear it.

Pleading guilty rather than making their victims give evidence over a 5 day trial, which presumably required the jury to see the phone footage might just count as "well behaved"

Behaving yourself in a law court is a pretty low bar for civilised behaviour.

One thing that often bothers me is that there doesnt seem to be any significant attempt to stop children and young people getting involved in crime.

A former colleagues stepson was murdered. The knife had been given to the killer by his grandfather who had been to prison as had his father.

While you are very likley to get a false positive in assessing the risk of serious violence the killer was clearly at very high risk of becoming involved in crime from birth so why wasnt he taken into care at birth?

The killer of PC Andrew Harper ditto

It sounds like the track record of the offenders in this case was pretty grim so why isnt there early and assertive intervention with children at risk of offending?

Same story with Axel Rudubukana. Everyone knew he was dangerous, nothing was done to stop him until it was too late.

I used to work with these kind of boys from that community in a YOI. There were whole families all related to each other. They do not believe the norms of society apply to them and there is zero chance they'll engage in any rehabilitation programme. They will just up sticks and disappear.

Very likely. There appears to be tolerance to some communities due to "sensitivities".. Although If they had broken into the Judge's house and terrified him I'm not sure there would be as much leniency. Is there a theme running through these decisions, teen girls perhaps from working class backgrounds who seemingly don't matter? Southampton has another trial where a student was murdered and the offenders mum tried to cover it up.

Our teens have to be safe on the streets.Progressive ideas and a feeling of "you can't touch me" have lead to society going backwards.

Reports say the three boys were from the travelling community, so it doesn't really fit that narrative.

Agreed. There laws are made by people whose wealth insulates them from the realities of life. I bet if the victims of these 3 scumbags was the Judge's DDs, he wouldn't have been so lenient.

BBC News - Girl raped by boys spared jail tells BBC judge's decision was like 'rock in my face' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjrp98285yvo

Any intervention would be fiercely resisted by the entire community, not just the family. And families can and do simply disappear if the authorities take a persistent interest in them.

There was one site near us that got raided for illegal firearms. The firearms were found in a cupboard in the kids play trailer. Of course as it was communally owned and everyone had access to it, and all denied any knowledge, no one was arrested. The same with untaxed and uninsured vehicles - the community simply closes ranks and no individuals are ever held to account.

I am not saying that there are no problems

We need a state Willing to asset itself

This is a very good point. So they are actually intelligent/ developed enough to understand the etiquette of the court. Surely, that points to them being able to understand right from wrong.

So true. They're a law unto themselves.

I used to teach them to read. They're bright enough but supposed to work from about age 10 or younger so usually illiterate. It's a tragic waste.

Yes. Round our way, the girls would stay in school until they were 16, but the boys often left much earlier - unless the father had set up a non-itinerant business in the area.

As background information and as an Irish citizen the Irish Government does not support the traveller community. They are very keen to look contemporary, 21st century and European after so many years of living in the dark ages, colonial rule and the priesthood. They insist on children attending school, living in safe, stable housing and integrating in society. The UK Government says this isn't a requirement so they come here.

The girls often learn to read so they can do the accounts etc if they're doing building work. Both girls and boys are married off at 16 or even younger.

Yes. One of our former pupils was disowned by her family because she dared to leave and divorce her abusive husband. She moved back from England to Scotland and settled in the town where she'd been educated.

Me too.
The punishment system is an absolute joke and needs changing BEFORE so many people take it into their own hands. We can’t trust them. I hope this is a wake up call to overhaul the system. I think the judge should face some consequences for this too…. He’s completely abused his power and basically said boys will be boys. I think that warrants prison time…. There must be something he can be charged with for so blatantly abusing his power, disgusting.

You can't blame the Irish Government after so many years of the Irish being called thick and illiterate that they want to clamp down on a culture which appears to be just the opposite of modern Ireland and its aspirations in the modern world.

My experience in Scotland was that the authorities were satisfied so long as a letter had come in to say that the boys were being "home educated".

We did have one violent pupil whose family had a settled business in the area and who was supposed to be staying on until he was 16. However, after he'd hit yet another girl at school, a girl in the year above him gave him a thumping in the playground. The boy left school to be "home educated" the next day.

I do recall working intermittently with an extremely naive Traveller Education Support Worker who romanticised the traveller life. She informed us quite seriously "If you ask a child whether they prefer living in a house or a trailer, they'll tell you 'a trailer'. If you ask a trailer or a bender, they'll say 'bender'."

In fact, the children vied to see who had the most luxurious trailer. (Apart from those who'd settled permanently, any houses were council accommodation used by the "separated" mother and children while the men were on the road.)

There are also traveller sites in the area - some council, some privately operated by travellers. We've had problems with fights between rival clans.

Typically, the fights appear on social media and the police don't arrive until things are well over - no matter how long the chaos has gone on.

Does anyone know if this judge is facing any consequences for this. This woke, far left, disgrace of a public servant is basically a rape apologist and laughing at the victims. All in the name of progressivism.

I'm afraid it's the equivalent of a religious cult and it's very difficult for the clan members to leave. I blame the new age hippies and liberals for supporting it. Believe me from what I know they wouldn't last 5 minutes in this very hard life. They'd be doing hard manual labour from an early age or have numerous pregnancies from age 14. Sounds like the Victorian age.

We have no way of knowing his political affiliation so the description "far left" is out of order, as is the plication that people on the left of politics do not prioritise protection of women.
I am less concerned about his politics than I am about his inability to understand the need to protect women and his implicit boys will be boys mindset.
I hope he suffers some consequences for this serious error of judgement.

I have worked a lot with gypsies and travellers and many in the community will be as appalled as we are by the actions of these boys. The decent members will have sinking hearts over these boys bringing them all into disrepute. These boys are a disgrace to their families and communities.

I am sick and fucking tired of this shit, when will it stop?
Men, fucking MEN, entitled misogynistic little fucking pricks. No, not all men, but still, fucking men.
If this was my son I'd be utterly ashamed and no fucking way would I be sat in court room for him, fuck that.
Nothing about this case is ok and the judge can go fuck himself.