AIBU to think these boys should have been incarcerated?

[newrubylane]

BBC News - Teenage boys sentenced for raping lone girls
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clypg68e2neo

I've never started an AIBU before, but I'm genuinely really shocked. I'm just not sure how this sentence is justifiable. Their actions were premeditated and deliberate, they were carrying a knife and they filmed themselves. They're obviously a danger to women/girls, and probably to other boys too.

If anyone knows how and why this sentence might have come about, I'd be interested to hear it.

Agreed. As a mother of 2 teenage girls it's absolutely terrifying

This!

The contempt for the girls by the judge is maddening. Mild platitudes towards her suffering. He is disgusting and if I was his daughter i would never speak to him again.

They should have been criminalised and given harsh sentences.

I haven’t read the entire thread but is there any evidence that restorative justice works with gang rapists?

I mean it sounds lovely. But where’s the evidence that you can turn boys who rape girls by knife point as a gang can be made into decent human beings? Surely locking them up for life is safer for the law abiding girls minding their own business.

I will be voting for whatever party is tough on criminals. I’m bored of being kind. I want my children and their peers to be able to walk to the shop or the park without gangs with knives.

This case has also proved video footage / cctv or whatever is not making us safer. Rapists used to escape because ‘it’s his word against hers’ now it’s because ‘the poor darling boys deserve help’. It’s bullshit

Absolutely disgusting, the judge should be reviewed in some way as well, what was he thinking? Our justice system has some clear holes in it if judges can give lenient punishments and not see young men as the very dangerous individuals they clearly are.

Absolutely disgusting. I’m hearing now on LBC that these boys are part of the travelling community. What example are we setting to people, excuse low intelligence or have learning disabilities?
really needs the law to change and stand up to those who don’t feel the need to parent properly.

Petitioning for the boys to have their sentence reviewed and upgraded to custodial will also do nothing to bring about justice for the girls though and beyond a short term sense of relief will do nothing to address their long term trauma.

The boys were found guilty, they will have a criminal record for life, even if their conviction is spent. It will always show up on any future enhanced DBS checks. Depending on what the judge ordered, they may have to report to the police their whereabouts and will be on the sex offenders register for between 5 years and life.

Being in a Youth Offending Institute for 18months, with little access to rehabilitation support and getting into regular fights will either force them to become 'alphas' and come out with an untouchable arrogance or they will be bullied and beaten to the point where they come out with an enormous amount of resentment. Neither of those will do anything to help them understand the severity of what they did and is in fact likely to increase the likelihood of them re-offending.

Community orders like YROs, which can also result in them losing their freedom through secure orders, tagging etc are more likely to get them access to better rehabilitation services and significantly reduce the likelihood of re-offending.

If the sentence is reviewed and they are given a custodial sentence, it won't be for life - it will likely not be for more than the three years that their YRO is - maybe even less.

Calling for them to be incarcerated does nothing to help the victims and in fact increases the likelihood of re-offending and creating more victims in the future. It's mob justice.

If the concern is truly about helping the girls, it would be much more effective to use the outrage to demand that support for victims is improved.

Actually the word may have been hysteria so happy to correct that.

However hopefully you can tell me where in my post I indicated you had made this thread hard for me?

I think the judge and the rehabilitation service providers should face prison if these boys reoffend.

Let’s see if the do gooders really do believe in restorative justice. Are they prepared to put their freedom, job and pension on the line. If not why not?

I have a feeling more prison sentences would occur.

As well as filling in an unduly lenient request via gov UK, why don't we all fill in the "complain about a Judge" form on the gov website. You can't challenge a sentence but I am going to challenge his statements as being misogynistic as he praised the boys and made no reference to the girls.. Anyone else fancy complaining?

If the concern is truly about helping the girls, it would be much more effective to use the outrage to demand that support for victims is improved.

I'd like there to be less victims, by long/life long incarceration of men who are a danger to them.
There is no support in the world that will unrape the girls.

@Ohcrap082024 - That's not to say I don't think the sentence should be reviewed though.

None of us here have the full facts of the case and we are reacting on the emotions that sexual crimes raise in us as women and mothers of daughters. My own initial reaction earlier on in this thread was the same as many others - that the sentence was too low and the judge was despicable.

But the more I have thought about it logically and dispassionately, looked at the stats and the research and thought about what the court will have had access to vs what is published in the media, the more my views have shifted away from my initial reaction.

If the Home Secretary decides to review the case, it will be done professionally and dispassionately based on the facts of the case, the pre-sentencing reports, psychological assessments of the boys etc - as it should be.

If it is found, based on all of the facts of the case, that the judge has erred in their sentencing and it is unduly lenient, the boys severity of the boys sentences will be addressed and hopefully the judge will face appropriate professional consequences and additional training.

I find myself caring less and less about the outcome for the boys and more about the long term future that the girls will face. I am more angry that the boys, regardless of the sentence are more likely to be able to access support than those girls are. That is the true injustice!

I have submitted a request for sentencing review. I'm furious, the judge's absolute disregard for the female victims - they will not be able to move on.

I've shared it with my friends and families.

An interesting story though for people asking if there is any evidence that rehabilitation in the community works: https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/mar/20/norway-town-forgave-child-killers

A norway town that forgave two 6 year old boys who murdered. I think the difference here is that they actually HAVE a community, and they are actualy set up, with strong values, to help guide young people.

This country has a void/vacuum where it should have morals and conscience.

Does anyone else not think though, that the best psychological support for brutalised girls is knowing that their attackers are not free to roam the streets? What's the point otherwise - they'll never get a sense of safety back.

I agree. If it cannot be proved that jail or rehabilitation will stop then offending then lock them up for life.

Bleeding hearts for rapists leads to more girls with a life sentence. Look at the man who murdered Irina in America (tube), he’d been caught and let off numerous times. I’d like to know how many judges have shares/interests in restorative justice providers!

They were 6.

These boys were over 12. They gang raped at knife point. If they don’t have mental capacity to understand gang rape at knife point is illegal then they should be locked up for public safety. If they have mental capacity then lock them up for being criminals.

A few work sheets. A chat with a counsellor.

Look at the work if Lundy Bancroft on male abusers. He says abusive men rarely change.

AI - Lundy Bancroft asserts that abusers rarely changeand that typical 40-hour intervention programs are insufficient to alter the deep-seated, years-long development of abusive mindsets. He argues that lasting change requires 18–24 months of intensive work, complete cessation of blaming partners, and a fundamental restructuring of the abuser's entitlement, which most participants never achieve.

Make judges accountable for future crimes if the criminals do it again.

Edited to add - I agree about community.

I feel like we're at a place now where the simple wish that those who are a danger to society, are kept away from society, is treated like some sort of outdated or extremist viewpoint. What the hell happened?

Yes exactly, and the Irina Zarutsaka case wasn't the only one by a long shot. It seems to be the same ideology informing the justice system thoughout much of the west - Haroon Aswat, one of the men who helped plan the London 7/7 bombing attacks, has been released from psychiatric prison now.

One of the Bataclan killers, Mohamed Bakkali, has been enjoying penitentiary leave from his Belgian prison, thanks to his "calm and respectful" demeanor.

I could actually be here all day listing similar cases of leniency.

The author Roxane Gay was gang-raped by a group of boys when she was 14. It's similar circumstances in that she thought she was meeting one of them, who she liked, for a date. They then spread rumours around the school about what had happened.

It's been a life sentence for her. She immediately had enormous shame around her body, understandably, and began over-eating, and is still very overweight now, in her 50s. Every single day of her life since it happened she's had to walk around with the embodiment of that shame. Not to mention the lifelong trauma and difficulties with relationships.

I don't think the justice system understands what a life sentence rape can be for the victims.

I don't disagree - but the terrible rate of prosecution and conviction for rape, and the low sentences isn't going to change by petitioning for a review of the sentence for these boys and neither is it going to help these or any other victims.

The severity of punishments is not a deterrent - if it was then there would be no murders. Even when hanging was punishment for murder - arguably the worst deterrent possible, murders still happened.

The vengeful side of me wouldn't want to see rapists incarcerated for life - I'd rather see them chemically castrated (or physically with a rusty knife) and branded so that they couldn't do it again and everyone would know what they had done.

I don't think it's vengeful to want them locked up for life, it's practical for societal safety. If castrated, they could still attack their victims, and violate them with objects.

The majority of crime is committed by a small number of people.

youthendowmentfund.org.uk/reports/key-facts-about-violence/2-small-number-of-people-commit-large-proportion-of-violence/

Extract - A small number of people commit a large proportion of the violent crime that occurs.
For example, in one study 1% of the total population accounted for 63% of all convictions for violence.

Amongst those who commit any crime, offending is further concentrated within a smaller group of people who’ve committed many offences. A large amount of the violence that happens is carried out by a subset of people who commit many offences.

Lock them all up! Make girls and women and law abiding men safer.

This is what El Salvador has done. Whether you agree or disagree the stats don’t lie.

AI

El Salvador has experienced a historic reduction in violent crime, transitioning from the "murder capital of the world" in 2015 to having one of the lowest homicide rates in the Western Hemisphere. In 2025, the country recorded only 82 homicides (1.36 per 100,000 inhabitants), a 28.1% decrease from 2019, and projections for 2026 suggest the rate will drop further to approximately 1.15 per 100,000.

While El Salvador was once the most violent country in the world, its aggressive crackdown on gangs has reduced its rate to 1.36 per 100,000 people (2025). London's homicide rate is approximately 12-13 per 100,000 people, making its per-capita risk significantly higher, even though the absolute number of deaths in the capital exceeds the national total of El Salvador due to population size and density.

I can't actually trust myself to respond properly to OP's question - I'm beyond disgusted by these boys and by the judge, whose position, I think, should be in danger.

It wasn't just the lack of custodial sentence - it was the awful conciliatory - almost supportive - comments he made to the boys. Loathsome, loathsome man.

I'll leave it there.

Of the past few years I have heard a lot about the brain not being fully developed until the age of 25. Can anyone link to the research this is based on? I'd be really interested in reading the source.

It’s not about deterrence. I believe men and boys like this are truly too stupid to understand consequences.

Its about keeping women and girls safe.

either we incarcerate violent men or we will be ‘incarcerated’ through restricting our freedom so we can keep ourselves safe.

Yes they should have been locked up. It’s absolutely awful, these poor young girls. What message is this sending out.