Is Andy Burnham reasonable to say only a small minority of women object to men being in their toilets? YABU he's right, YANBU he's wrong *titled tweaked by MNHQ at OP's request*

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15830845/Andy-Burnham-men-identify-women-use-female-toilets.html

'I don't think that's a majority view. I think it's a minority view and quite a small minority view, actually. But it is a view so you can't completely ignore it. Possibly they might be women who have experienced male violence at some point in their life. I don't know, that's one way of looking at it.'

And I would be suspicious, to say the least, about any male who wasn't mortified to be witness to that sort of thing!

You think this thread is going to change the outcome of the by-election? Or have I misundertood.
😂😂😂

Yes, he must be incredibly stupid. Surely even without his offensive 'I believe the wimmin should stfu' nonsense the fact that he's effectively resigned from his 'mayor' job and is hijacking another MP's seat to attempt to enter No 10 shows anyone who may be tempted to vote for him that he's a wanker?

Haha I love the comment that he’ll end up “pandering to the bigots” and that’s why Labour will be “decimated” because that’s why everyone will vote against them 😂

Reasonable? On the contrary.

It certainly speaks to his lack of critical thinking skills.

Surrounded by activists he decided to believe their ideological bullshit (or he was too much of a coward to challenge it). In part because he's a man therefore Self ID wouldn't affect him.

But also because many on the left have misogyny running quietly in their veins. Trans Activism has been a gift. It's given them an acceptable vehicle to shit on women's rights and on the women who continue to fight for them. All under the guise of 'progressiveness'.

I've been left wing since my late teens and like many on the left at the moment I feel politically homeless. In part because of arseholes like Andy Burnham.

I think he's wrong. I also think this is the Daily Mail digging up old news to make mischief. I don't think any of us should be supporting that, whatever our political leanings.

Almost all the places I have worked have had unisex toilets because they only had a few toilets. That isn't scalable. If you want to learn more about the ins and outs of toilet design, lookup 'keeptoiletssafe'.

We have more to struggle against that the odd person who identifies as a woman relieving themselves in a public convenience.

Yes, we also have the attempt to remove sex from legislation and policy which would remove the all the rights that women have fought for over the post 50 years. Do you not think this is important?

You do know social media consists of more than Mumsnet and can be very powerful in swaying public opinion?

This, 100%.

And I'm going with "coward."
Nobody with two brain cells actually believes any of this ideological bullshit.

Labour- passed Sex Discrimination act, and Equal Pay act. Statutory maternity pay starting from day one of a job, also made companies expect flexible working. National min wage, benefitted women more because women were the majority of low paid workers.
Online sagely act to protect women and girls, to protect against explicit deepfakes and disgusting male behaviour.
Brought in stronger rules against menopause discrimination and better care for baby loss.
Labour brought down the VAT on sanitary products (lowest it could go through EU laws) before it was scrapped, under pressure, from a Labour MP once we left the EU.
Started breakfast clubs, free in primary schools to help parents, and a lot of mums.
Labour were the first to have female MP's and went on to address the imbalance representing us in parliament.
Are bringing in anti-misogyny education and behavioural courses for teenage boys in schools to tackle the violence against women and girls from an earlier age.

Am sure there are more.

Cheers.

You're not from the north west are you?

I agree that this in and of itself is a minority issue for people to hang their vote on. What it does do, reliably, is make pro trans rights or handwave politicians look a) dishonest and slippery or b) mad. And that, like it or not, DOES cut through. It did with Trump in the swing states.

Indeed. But they have also never had a woman leader.

I'm GC but I really don't think this is the massive issue outside of Mumsnet that some seem to think it is. It also wouldn't be the key deciding factor of who I'd choose to vote for.

I don’t need to be to know the results of the last mayoral election. Obviously if I was I’d have voted for him.

Andy Burnham should not be speaking so cavalierly about or on behalf of women as a group and he should get his facts straight. This bathroom issue is one facet of a highly sensitive, much wider debate, as he should know, and nobody in public office should wade into it so boldly and so uninformed. Possibly he believes his (implied) opinion will carry the majority of women voters with him. I suspect not.

Many women and girls are feeling under attack from groups lobbying to erode their rights. Prisons, refuges, sports, changing rooms, language around pregnancy and motherhood - all accepted norms are being challenged. See the recent verdict on a women-only app in Australia.

Andy Burnham would do well to be quiet. The court made its judgement on the legal definition of a woman and it's not for him to question its validity. There is much to be worked out so that all sectors are considered and feel safe. There is no room for hatred, violence and discrimination. This does not mean one sector should be forced to relinquish its rights to another. Solutions are available which would suit the vast majority of people. But women's rights should not be used as pawns.

Going by Maggie and Lettuce, does that matter and is it a result from discrimination? Best person for the job please, not because of their sex.

I hope he doesn’t get it. It’s not just about this singular statement or a singular view, it’s the reach he has and how that reach will utilise this view to continue to change institutions.

I remember his performance in covid, standing on the steps of some building making announcements, pretending to have only just received some gov news about tiers for his area. He was up there with Sturgeon for loving the limelight that the whole tragic mess brought.

He really is insufferable. Think I'd rather have Angie making a pigs ear out of the country than him.

Which is why I am surprised they Seek to undo all the good work by saying TWAW. It undoes a huge amount of these things if you can no longer define a woman. In Australia, in effect, they no longer have a sex discrimination Act becuase of this

I saw someone saying they hoped Keir would not publish the guidance (EHCR I presume) and hoped Andy would bury it.

I heard its predicted to be close. This is a brexit voting area and AB is a TWAW Remainer. I don't think anyone can be certain who will win this.

It's all over sm and the msm?

What use is a 'sex discrimination act' if one says that men can be women?

it doesn’t have to be their number one issue to make Burnham look like an arrogant, misogynistic dick.