To think some older women having tax payers funded ivf are hypocrites?

[Spiderbug]

There seems to be a substantial group of people who are ok with calling teen mums a waste of their tax money but then leave child bearing too late and expect the tax payers to foot the bill for their multiple ivf cycles which costs the tax payer up to 100 million a year.

Hypocrites!!!

It isn't being judgemental of teen mums to know that a reasonable number will require more state support in the early years of parenthood. Definitely not all, but a higher proportion than parents slightly older who will have higher paid jobs and have had time to save to ensure they can pay for private (not state) housing, claim less in UC and childcare support.

Obviously there are parents at all ages claiming this, and there will be teens who live on family support. But more likely to need it and also be able to get a council house as a very young parent with no other support. A 15 year old is not working full time to pay for their housing and food. Absolutely not saying you needed to, or that they shouldn't be helped, and I haven't looked for studies, but we know it happens.

So are people using IVF to help them become parents when they are older actually using more state funded support than someone needing a council house, extra state paid for childcare and UC? Who are you, or I, to judge who should get more support? Someone pregnant before they are able to financially support themselves, or someone in their 30's or 40's, who could have tried for 10+ years to have a child needing support to get pregnant?

There are any number of reasons why couples might struggle with infertility, such as cancer treatment, which don't mean they are unworthy or incapable of having children via IVF.

It sounds like she's got at least one person in her life that fits this criteria, and it's triggered her which I can understand.

The generalisation though, that all older women needing IVF are hypocrites is just as wrong as the all teen mum's are benefit scroungers assumption.

I’m not saying they are judging at a higher rate. If someone’s gone through their life never taking a single penny from tax payers and wants to judge me for claiming benefits as a teenager fair enough. Also nothing against nice individuals going through ivf.
I just cannot stand hypocrites and their double standards

Although evidence wise - one is far likely to be true that then other.

But these ‘older’ women might have been trying to conceive for years and years-from when they were young. The health service is there for those in need and funded by us all. I’m not sure your point is valid. The comparison to teen mums doesn’t make any logical sense. We all need the nhs at some point.

OP, to have IVF on the NHS, you have to have been trying for a baby for two years and be under 40. Between 40 and 42, you can have one round if IVF if you’ve never had it before. That’s in general, because it varies form health authority to health authority, but the absolute maximum number of cycles you can have is three - so hardly “multiple”. As far as teenage mums are concerned, do you really think you were ready to be a mother at 15? At the very least, it seems a bit irresponsible to have a baby when you haven’t the means to look after it. These days there are far fewer teenage mothers. I don’t think most people actually express a view on the subject, unless asked.

Interesting that you can provide statistics on IVF being a booming industry but not on older women criticising teen mums and then going on to have IVF.

🤔

Unless you have surveyed every 'older woman' in the entire country on this and cross referenced with their views on teen parents then this is a pretty pointless thread

Agree

There's high risk factors for baby to teen mums not just older mums.
Babies to teen mums are more likely to be premature, higher chance of low birth weight and neonatal conditions, higher mortality rate and higher long term development delays.

It's well researched.
I don't judge teen mums but the risk factors are not just about money.

Not completely true. If you have had two ectopic pregnancies and your fallopian tubes removed, and/or if you have certain medical conditions you can have it on the NHS.

So you are pissed ppl hated on you as a teen mum and so want to hate on other mums as revenge. Got it.

If they have reached menopause then they left it too late. If they are not menopausal then they have not left it too late. Simple.

How many women who have reached menopause have IVF?

This. It's very easy to say 'no-one should be having IVF on the NHS' but they've not been in the position of not being able to fall pregnant naturally, when you desperately want a child. 'Oh a child is not a RIGHT' some people say. Well so what? It doesn't mean people shouldn't be helped to have one if they're struggling. Have some compassion and empathy FFS!

And I have no skin in the game as I had my 2 quite easily/naturally when I was in my late 20s.

.

Aside from the fact that the vast majority of people using the NHS for IVF will be tax payers? And the fact that for society to continue functioning in the future we need people to be having children and the birth rates are dropping?

Whether society (read:humans) should be allowed to continue is a completely separate argument, but for that to happen, we need future generations. So if some people need help for that to happen, shouldn't they get it?

The usage and cost of IVF on NHS will.be readily available information but can you please pinpoint the evidence of how much of that cost is directly associated with "older women" who purposely put off TTC younger AND also have the view that all teenage mothers are a waste of taxpayer funds?

I'd be surprised if that was a well researched topic.

Where I live it’s one round, the cut off age is 40.

Does it break it down into age groups of patients?

OP what are you classing as 'older'?

As several people have pointed out, the cut off for IVF on the NHS in most areas is 40, and those people will have to have tried for years, gone through diagnosis and then faced lengthy waiting lists. It is absolutely NOT an easy process.

As several other people have pointed out, the majority of IVF is funded privately so is not costing the taxpayer a penny.

Anyone who simply 'left it too late' will be one of those self funding (and will have paid into the system for years, too).

I'm sorry you faced stigma as a teen mum but honestly, this thread is complete bullshit.

Again google is your friend we even have ai now :

Yes, there is substantial evidence from UK studies, reports, charities, and personal accounts showing that teenage mothers ("teen mums") face significant stigma, judgment, hostility, and discrimination.This persists despite teenage pregnancy rates in England and Wales falling sharply (to historic lows, with under-18 conception rates dropping over 60% in recent decades). Public perceptions often exaggerate the issue, contributing to negative attitudes. Academic and Qualitative StudiesMultiple UK-focused studies document young mothers' experiences:
Young parents report everyday judgment, hostility, and stigmatisation, including disparaging looks from strangers, being shouted at or sworn at, ignored by professionals, and name-calling. This leads to feelings of worthlessness, shame, and higher risks of postpartum depression.
Stigma is linked to stereotypes of teen mums as irresponsible, unfit parents, welfare-dependent, or morally lax. This "inferiorisation" affects interactions with the public, schools, and services.
A Brighton-based study (Ellis-Sloan) found young mothers keenly aware of the stigmatising identity. Examples include public sneering, bus passengers calling teen mums a "disgrace," and assumptions they only get pregnant for benefits/housing.
Barnardo's report Not the End of the Story highlighted bullying, stigma, and unofficial school exclusions for pregnant girls, reinforcing isolation and reluctance to access support.
Media, Charities, and Public Discourse
BBC Newsbeat (2014) reported young mums facing stigma and abuse, with charities noting discrimination often stems from misconceptions about how common teen pregnancy is.
The "pramface" label and media portrayals reinforce views of teen mums as a social problem or burden.
Public polls (e.g., Ipsos MORI) show Britons overestimate teen birth rates (guessing ~16% of girls aged 15-19 give birth yearly, vs. actual ~3% at the time), fueling exaggerated negative views.
Impacts on Mental Health and Daily Life
Young mums experience shame, judgment from professionals, and barriers to support, increasing mental health risks. Many feel not taken seriously as parents.
Stigma continues into later life, e.g., at their child's school, where former teen mums report judgment from other parents and staff.
This can lead to social isolation, lower self-esteem, and reluctance to seek help.
Context and NuanceTeenage pregnancy in the UK is strongly linked to deprivation, with higher rates in poorer areas. While many teen mums face real challenges (e.g., lower educational/economic outcomes on average), research shows outcomes vary, some young parents do well with support, and stigma itself worsens isolation and mental health without helping prevention. Government strategies (e.g., the Teenage Pregnancy Strategy) and prevention frameworks acknowledge stigma as a factor but also aim to reduce rates through education and support. In short, peer-reviewed studies, charity reports (Barnardo's, etc.), and first-hand accounts consistently prove widespread judgment exists in the UK, manifesting in public hostility, professional bias, and social exclusion. Rates have declined partly because of this stigma, per some analyses, but it harms those affected.

This.

I think this thread is probably best left.

OP is clearly carrying some hurts, and isn't able to debate clearly.

Why are there so many goady threads on MN these days?

Oh well now AI has stepped in to settle the debate we must all be wrong 🤦🏻‍♀️

Wow, was that actually based on evidence, or just the consultants opinion/anecdote?

I also wonder what "leaving it too late" actually means. You can't start TTC under 30 if you don't meet a suitable partner until you're 35. I don't think many people are delaying it just as a choice - only due to circumstances. It would be interesting to know the actual data though.

OP - as you can tell by this thread, plenty of people don't think IVF should be funded either. Those of us who've had NHS IVF are aware we are looked down on too! Despite spending years TTC beforehand.

I think the difference is that teen pregnancy is generally an unplanned mistake, through carelessness/not using suitable contraception, or if intentional hasn't been thought through for long. Needing IVF later in life usually follows years of longing and heartbreak and planning.

Perhaps if we're talking NHS pregnancy costs we could look at all the interventions that pregnant women need because they have chosen unhealthy lifestyles? How does the round of IVF to create my baby compare cost-wise to care/treatment for mothers who are very overweight, smoke, don't exercise etc? (Or my anecdotal example of someone having 3 cesareans purely through choice, no medical need.)

• For the record, a round of IVF privately through my nearest NHS clinic was around £5000 at the time. I assume the actual costs to the NHS were lower.

I am forever grateful for the chance to be a mum, having regretted following the advice to be sensible as a fertile teenager!