I'm fed up with everyone tiptoeing around Brexit having been rubbish

[paddleboardingmum]

We can all see how it hasn't stopped immigration, we don't have the more money for the NHS that was promised, and everyone is worse off. I'm sure even many who voted for it - who were conned at the time- also can see it was rubbish. Isn't it time for people to stop pretending it was a good idea. That doesn't mean we need to rejoin right now or blame anybody, but I think it's time to just face facts and stop trying to pretend it was a good idea.

I agree, it’s ridiculous.

Not by our political parties it hasn't been.

Sophistry at it's finest.

We're losing £100 billion a year. There wasnt a version of Brexit where we are better off.

I'm another one who's really puzzled by the whole thread

I feel as if everyone talks about how shit it is. Politicians, media commentators, everyone. Although now I'm thinking politicians are probably very careful about it.

just editing to say they probably talk about it a lot less after 2019 because Boris Johnson largely got elected on the promise of getting Brexit done,

What do you mean ‘our’? Because if you are claiming no British political parties have talked about brexit being bad for us, then you are incorrect.

I think it was utterly rubbish, but I don’t think we can just reverse it. It would be a huge diversion.

I think a majority of leave voters don’t regret their vote in the slightest and think Brexit is at worst a slightly embarrassing but fundamentally correct campaign of the past, based on conversations I have (I have a community nhs job in a prosperous but not exceptionally diverse county). IMO the country swung away from the EU after Maastricht and stayed there. Farage came top of the ballot in the south east EU elections after that and stayed at the top while EU elections existed.

I’m Remain. I loathe Farage. I loathe Johnson more, except for his pragmatic decisions to sell immigration visas to get trade agreements, his principled agreement to give Hong Kong residents visas and his unstinting support for Ukraine. Neither of them came out of nowhere. I’m probably in the ‘please let’s not do that to ourselves again’ camp. I live in hope that Farage selling his party’s voice to anyone who will pay them and trousering the proceeds will eventually catch up with him. I have no hope that we will ever join the EU again. There might be something that looks not entirely unlike it in some future somewhere.

To be perfectly honest I agree with her
Spain has given 500k illegal imigrants a “temporary” visa

no doubt that this will eventually be moved into permanent status and if we were in the EU that’s possibly something the UK would have to do as well

I mean enter a country illegally
hang around for a while and get rewarded with a temporary visa - madness

Ha ha politicians and honesty

if you believe that politicians are honest
I have a Brexit deal to sell you 😂

Eh, come to Scotland. No one is tiptoeing around it, and about 98% of us knew it was a stupid,shit, devastating policy to vote for.

Maybe the COL crisis wouldn’t have hit us in the UK so hard if we hadn’t had brexit, faffed about leaving and left a weakened EU. Maybe the US wouldn’t have tried to bully us as part of the EU we were stronger and we wouldn’t have lost industry and jobs who relocated to be in EU.

Again? Blimey, it's like a stuck record isn't it? I got fed up with hearing about it years ago, and can't think of anything worse than talking about bloody Brexit.

The vote was a decade ago. Exit was 6 years ago. I don't waste time thinking about it, life goes on, and we are no worse off than France or German in terms of growth or immigrants.
I don't think people are "tiptoeing around it". It's just not part of the equation any more.

How the fuck do you work that out? Implementation was led by Boris Johnson and his "oven ready deal". Boris was one of the chief architects of Brexit. We came out of the EU with a deal that was negotiated and signed by leading Brexiteers. If it failed, then that failure was entirely of their own making.

The reality is, all the promises of sunlit uplands were based on the false premise that we could keep all of the benefits of being in the EU without any of the costs. The Brexiteers argued that we could have our cake and eat it. Anybody who ever thought that was remotely realistic was conned. Whether they're willing to admit it or not.

I can understand why Andy Burnham has

he needs voters that voted leave and no one really likes to be told they were wrong

if he becomes PM he can then say what a catastrophe it’s been but then that’s a risk for the next election

its not about appealing to those who are already on rejoining side or appealing to more voters necessarily it’s where you need to win voters over (high leave voting areas)

Apart from a few cranks, I don’t think anyone is pretending it’s been anything other than a total disaster. The difference of opinion is about WHY it’s been a total disaster.

On one hand, you have people who believe it was just inherently a disaster and was never going to be anything other than a disaster, because the whole notion is fundamentally flawed. I fall into this camp.

On the other, you have people who believe the problem is not Brexit in and of itself but rather the way it was implemented. In their view, Brexit in the true sense didn’t happen; instead politicians screwed it up. Had Brexit been implemented properly we’d all be living the good life in the sunlit uplands.

Brexit is just like communism. A brilliant idea that has failed because it wasn’t implemented correctly.

Or just maybe it was a fucking stupid idea in the first place.

Well I see the eu itself as an unmitigated utter disaster.

If you said this to most people in RL @paddleboardingmum , they would wonder if you have been cut off from TV / radio / newspapers / social media / the internet generally / unable to leave your home… for a good few years

Well nobody is allowed to say “We’re up shit creek thanks to the idiots who voted for it - the ones who labelled the resulting shitshow as ‘Project Fear’, when it was actually ’Project Bleeding Obvious’ to anyone who had put more than 20 second’s thought into it.

“Ooh, you can’t blame the Leave voters, we were conned. It wasn’t our fault. Blaming us isn’t helpful!”

They were conned by a slimy chancer who might as well have had “CONMAN” written across his forehead. It is their fault, and I’m fed up of having to tiptoe round them.

I've often heard that argument. Classic case of 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'. What kind of a message did she think she was sending? All she's done is make things worse for everyone, including herself.

That is an interesting point of view. I don't agree but I am very open to hearing how it could have been implemented better. What are your thoughts on how it could have succeeded and been administered well?

I voted YABU because I don’t think anyone is tiptoeing around it, all we’ve heard is how shit it is for 10 years. Just listen to TRIP, Campbell and Stewart bring it up constantly.

??? Its been shit since day 1. Not sure why you're just realising.