I'm fed up with everyone tiptoeing around Brexit having been rubbish

[paddleboardingmum]

We can all see how it hasn't stopped immigration, we don't have the more money for the NHS that was promised, and everyone is worse off. I'm sure even many who voted for it - who were conned at the time- also can see it was rubbish. Isn't it time for people to stop pretending it was a good idea. That doesn't mean we need to rejoin right now or blame anybody, but I think it's time to just face facts and stop trying to pretend it was a good idea.

‘People’ absolutely have talked about it, a lot! My point still stands.

I'm not saying nobody has talked about it! I'm saying we as a country are still largely pretending it was a sensible idea.

I know what you're saying. Very few people in power have acknowledged plainly the damage Brexit did and how vulnerable we are as a result.

We aren’t though. And actually you said ‘everybody’ needs to stop tiptoeing.

Who is forcing you to tiptoe around it?

100% this!

Everyone I know talks openly about what a shit idea it was. I’m still fuming.

But then I think almost everyone I know probably voted Remain so they already knew it was a shit idea anyway.

I don’t know whether many of the Leave voters now admit it was a shit idea. I hope they do, and I also hope they examine their own approach to voting- especially how much research they do. Actual reading and thinking.

But I won’t hold my breath on that as recent events have indicated that many people still don’t think carefully about what they are voting for.

I am as anti Brexit as they come. However, I still do not want a firm commitment to rejoin the EU and all the uncertainty that brings for years and division. I think the intention to get closer to the EU by piecemeal and keep working on it, is what we need. I certainly cannot see us adopting the Euro any time soon.

I know what you're saying. Very few people in power have acknowledged plainly the damage Brexit did and how vulnerable we are as a result.

Thanks yes this is what I mean and you've explained it better than I did.

Who on earth is pretending it was a sensible idea? I haven’t seen or heard that anywhere.

@paddleboardingmum

Would you be in favour of having another referendum - stay out v. rejoin?

Are you new to MN, OP? The boards are full of hand wringing about how people’s children can’t work abroad, and how they blame the boomers for stealing the lives from their kids

I was wrong in my thread title to say 'everyone' when I should have said politicians and the media. It looks like I've meant on MN which I did not.

@38thparallel I don't think another referendum would be good really. I do think more honesty about it from politicians and the media would be good though.

Agreed total shit show... It was always going to be a shit show and it is not shouted from the rooftops enough that is was catastrophic. That's because politicians are still very wary of aggravating the gammons et al. I have one friend who voted out because they were farmers and the EU subsidies thing was tricky but she now regrets it... I blame Cameron for creating this by giving a binary vote for a multifarious issue and those who still defend it now are simply liars... It was always going to end like this and we cannot make the best of it because we don't have the ability to do that. It's the most agregious act of self harm this country has ever done to itself. It's a crock of shit with absolutely no upside.

Look imagine if you had voted Leave and let's not forget 17.4 million did, which is a lot of people. You now have a choice between admitting that it was a mistake or doubling down on your decision and explaining it as the wrong type of Brexit etc etc.

No one likes admitting that they were wrong and especially not having your nose rubbed in it.

Yes I don't think blaming people who voted leave is a good idea. We are where we are. But I don't see the full consequences of it really being spelled out. Interesting to read the comments here though, some don't agree and think that we are being told how bad it was? Maybe right I don't watch enough news then as I've not seen that on the news.

Google ‘brexit’ and loads of news pops up about it

I disagree with your premise. Brexit has been an enormous success. Great benefits for the national, including blue passports and, errrr, some other stuff that escapes me.

Oh yeah, just remembered, you can buy now Champagne in pint sized bottles. Although that is purely theoretical as no producer actually has gone to the expense of retooling their bottling line for all the fizz guzzling gammons

I am sure lots more benefits will flow through any day now

@paddleboardingmum

Well aside from inconveniences such as passport control for holidays, the main consequence is that has impacted GDP and made the country poorer, which is a fairly significant consequence.

Of course many leave voters will blame this on being the wrong flavour of Brexit but the fact remains that it has made everyone poorer.

I also agree with your comment that we are where we are, so there is not much benefit in pointing out that it was a bad idea, as you will only piss some people off for what? Just to say I was right and you were wrong? So it becomes a "let's not talk about it ".

In this respect I think it is very similar to Covid, where rational people will view the response and lockdowns as an hysterical collective madness, which long term probably killed more people than died from COVID and for which we are still paying the economic consequences of today (increased debt, lower productivity, inefficient practices, WFH etc etc). Again with COVID no one really wants to admit that they bought into the collective madness, so it becomes another "let's not talk about it " topic.

If there’s any tiptoeing by politicians it’s because they don’t want to call the electorate that voted for it stupid/dumb/thick. Not because they don’t believe they are, but because they want their votes.

Where have you been @paddleboardingmum ?

I was listening to a five live phone in about this this morning. Plenty of People on there saying it had been disastrous and refreshingly some people who voted leave admitted they had been mistaken, which is the first time I think I’ve ever heard any leavers do that. Not that it does us any good but at least it was recognised.