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To wonder what else can be done to break the cycle of generations living off benefits?

1000 replies

Allonthesametrain · 15/05/2026 22:25

Sounds harsh because It is. As a former teacher, then eduation social worker, now the past few years more heavily involved with school attendance.

My desire has always been to help children from unprivileged backgrounds to know their worth and achieve the best they can and this has been my career from age 23 to 57.

The number of times I've cried, torn my hair out, is immeasurable. I and colleagues have gone above and beyond to support the families, genuinely care about them, but unfortunately the outcome has been, as I've said in title, it's a continiation of the cycle of being brought up within a small community and low expectations.

So many gorgeous kids (supported throughout their young lives until they leave school) who tell you their dreams of what they want to to achieve in life, we do everything we can to enable it and some have indeed broken out of the circle but unfortunately the reality has been...

Parents who live lifestyles of no bedtime routine, tell their kids not to come back before ...pm, sleep in and don't get them out of bed ready and fed for school and as for weekends, pub and take back a new bloke

Parents who have issues themselves and project them onto DC. The kids soon realise they can stay off school for feigning illness and would actually be a comfort to Mum

The parents who just cba and say shall we just still in bed?

Of course there are so many other mitigating factors but these are the 3 main experiences we've dealt with. Unfortunately it really does come down to poor parenting and no matter what interventions we do to encourage attendance, only a minority are genuine.

So the cycle...DC think education isn't important, parents are hopeless role models and can often be aggressive to teachers, a deflection of blame.

Then oh DD gets pregnant at age 15, DS has been reprimanded by the police for scooting around in a balaclava. Then pure hostility when we try to continue to talk to them and what could be done to help.

Basically it's just such a shame, these sweet young kids who say they want to be ... become so influenced by their homelife, a need to fit in with their family and peers from the same estate, that they ignore the support we give them, don't turn up to appointments etc.

For the genuine cases, DC with SEN, the effort to try and ensure they are in best place is utmost and it's heartbreaking there aren't enough of them. Yes, we do know genuine cases and not just so many parents striving for a diagnosis because they feed DC a terrible diet and let them stay up late so are tired and irritable at school.

Expecting some backlash, whatever anyone says I can reason with.

OP posts:
DogAnxiety · 15/05/2026 23:36

IsabellaVireauxLaurent · 15/05/2026 23:17

because so far society has been able to prevent crime and people being criminals ? how many more years before many choose no crime ? and how many more years should the rest of law abiding society suffer because of criminal's ?

Uh… what? Are you arguing that because we still have crime, anything goes for solving crime?

If so, I mean, good luck arguing for that unless you’re doing it in the daily express or similar.

Allonthesametrain · 15/05/2026 23:37

LoremIpsumCici · 15/05/2026 23:19

No. This would reduce the number of jobs and councils & businesses would abuse this to get free labour. For example, instead of hiring cleaners, bin collectors, groundskeepers they will simply rotate in and out batches of unemployed people who are going to each work 20hrs for free.

Surely this will be extra help so not replacing.

OP posts:
BrassOlive · 15/05/2026 23:38

Allonthesametrain · 15/05/2026 23:24

Yeah i know, over 30 years experience actually doing the job to help families get out of it. Inwill take and give it back. Xxx

Maybe you're the problem OP, maybe you and your judgemental colleagues are just not very good at your jobs?

Youshouldbestrongerthanme · 15/05/2026 23:38

@ColdWeatherWarning I agree, but how does an unemployed parent (mother or father) pay child support if they have no income?

IsabellaVireauxLaurent · 15/05/2026 23:39

DogAnxiety · 15/05/2026 23:36

Uh… what? Are you arguing that because we still have crime, anything goes for solving crime?

If so, I mean, good luck arguing for that unless you’re doing it in the daily express or similar.

if all the current systems have not stopped or prevented criminals being criminals then simples, banish all criminals from society. yes its an omg option and i wish we had the technology from the film demolition man to reprogram humans to give them better skills and rewrite their cimimal nature but until then why should the rest of society suffer ?

LoremIpsumCici · 15/05/2026 23:41

tachetastic · 15/05/2026 23:31

@LoremIpsumCici: Studies on classism in the UK show that even a slightly wrong accent or not having been on holiday to the right places can put you out of the running for even entry level for professional roles.

Could you share these studies please? I would be genuinely interested to read something evidence based on this. 🙏

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/brits-still-associate-working-class-accents-with-criminal-behaviour-study-warns-of-bias

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220505-the-regional-accentism-that-secretly-affects-job-prospects

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyjdyj729ro

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/about/news/britains-accent-bias-revealed-in-new-book/

https://accentbiasbritain.org/background/

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/oct/24/uk-top-universities-urged-act-classism-accent-prejudice

https://hrnews.co.uk/the-class-ceiling-classism-experienced-by-a-third-of-uk-employees/

https://www.fairplaytalks.com/2022/11/29/classism-rife-in-more-than-half-of-uks-workplaces/

https://www.york.ac.uk/research/impact/employment-prospects/

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1111/1467-954X.12286

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jan/30/the-guardian-view-on-the-class-crisis-in-the-arts-the-uks-culture-must-not-become-the-preserve-of-the-elite

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/inequalities/2025/02/26/we-need-to-talk-more-about-class/

https://bera-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/curj.198

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/280973149ClassinContemporaryBritainComparingtheCulturalCapitalandSocialExclusionCCSEProjectandtheGreatBritishClassSurveyGBCS

https://ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/classism-hate-crime-and-the-law-commissions-consultation-paper-250-lessons-from-discrimination-law/

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01973533.2025.2467273

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/01425692.2022.2045185

too many to link.

Papster · 15/05/2026 23:41

I was inclined to agree with you and then found this.
“Despite dogged searching, the researchers were unable to locate any families with three generations who had never worked. If such families exist, they can only account for a minuscule fraction of workless people. Recent surveys suggest that under 1 per cent of workless households might have two generations who have never worked. Families with three such generations will therefore be even fewer.” Joseph Rowntree Foundation 2012

Allonthesametrain · 15/05/2026 23:42

Sartre · 15/05/2026 23:27

The North East is a particularly sad story. Absolutely beautiful part of the world with lots to offer, I hope it turns around up there. South Yorkshire has similar issues, as does Wales.

Yes, this is my demographic area which I travel to 3 hour round trip daily. Of course the MNs who are upset about going into an office one day a week won't understand the involvement from purely caring and devoted to job to willingly commute to try to make a difference while also having DC. Xx

OP posts:
LoremIpsumCici · 15/05/2026 23:43

Allonthesametrain · 15/05/2026 23:37

Surely this will be extra help so not replacing.

Extra help? You’re having a laugh. Why would any organisation have more workers than are required to get the job done? They wouldn’t. All your idea does is replace paid workers with easy access to unpaid, free labour. Pretty soon the entire job will only be done by the unemployed for free. By free I mean to the employer.

Papster · 15/05/2026 23:44

Governments won’t invest enough in prevention.
Whether it’s crime or health the cost of dealing with the consequences massively outweighs the cost of reducing incidence.

IsabellaVireauxLaurent · 15/05/2026 23:45

i wish we could save all humans but sadly not everyone can be saved is basically the bottom line, even with the best treatments, best efforts etc

KeeleyJ · 15/05/2026 23:46

I employed one of these kids (aged 16) when they left school (Council rent office). Wasn't like us to employ someone with no experience and 'just scraped by' Maths/English but we had a few vacancies and we wanted to give him a chance.

Had their hand in the till within days stealing money. Obviously sacked on the spot then arrested once we had passed the CCTV onto The Police. I've never employed a school leaver since except for summer students heading off to Uni. Unfortunately these kids have no aspirations and I can't see it changing.

ColdWeatherWarning · 15/05/2026 23:46

Youshouldbestrongerthanme · 15/05/2026 23:38

@ColdWeatherWarning I agree, but how does an unemployed parent (mother or father) pay child support if they have no income?

Prison, lose passport/licences/other privileges... other countries manage this in various ways. There's no excuse for the UK to shrug, look the other way and do absolutely nothing.

Anything that makes feckless men hesitate to squirt sperm around is good.

Allonthesametrain · 15/05/2026 23:47

StillsadstillHealing · 15/05/2026 22:50

Making the wages for jobs that require no formal qualifications much, much higher. I find it absurd that doctors and consultants caring for the most vulnerable in society get so much more than for example nursery workers and workers in residential care homes getting the bare minimum for also caring for the most vulnerable in society.
minimum wage needs to be much higher too.

Early intervention in schools to identify children more suited to apprenticeships for example to get them trained and working at a younger age and into an actual trade as once they start getting a decent wage and respected it’s transformative

Totally agree! The education system should have changed years ago. Different types of schools should be available not just huge academies with GCSEs. This is an issue I've been strongly invested in and would love to change the draconian system.

OP posts:
Tryingtokeepgoing · 15/05/2026 23:47

inmyhair · 15/05/2026 22:32

There aren't going to be that many jobs in the future anyway with the advance of AI so living on benefits will continue to be a lifestyle for many people I don't think it's going to ease to be honest.

People have being saying that techology will take all the jobs and there’ll be mass unemployment since then Industrial Revolution, and yet the economy demands more workers than ever. I imagine AI will have a similar impact. Jobs will continue to exist, they will just be different, and be jobs we can’t imagine right now. Who would have believed in the 1970s that 50 years later there would be hundreds of thousands of people globally creating content for YouTube, instagram or TikTok :)

IsabellaVireauxLaurent · 15/05/2026 23:48

Allonthesametrain · 15/05/2026 23:47

Totally agree! The education system should have changed years ago. Different types of schools should be available not just huge academies with GCSEs. This is an issue I've been strongly invested in and would love to change the draconian system.

but the system is doing exactly as it was designed to do

Viviennemary · 15/05/2026 23:48

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 15/05/2026 22:44

You fail to mention that the teenage pregnancy rate is considerably lower now than in the 80s add 90s, so it's far less likely the daughter will be pregnant at 15.

The daughter might even have a chance of becoming Prime Minister. So it's not all bad. Is it.

echt · 15/05/2026 23:49

Isittimeformynapyet · 15/05/2026 22:31

Can't believe you used to be a teacher. There's so many errors in your post.

That should be There are so many errors in your post.

Allonthesametrain · 15/05/2026 23:49

Grammarnut · 15/05/2026 23:23

Teach them to read, that means phonics to automaticity plus a knowledge rich curriculum - this is the comprehension bit of reading. Use explicit teaching methods of that knowledge rich curriculum - interactive, lots of practice and retrieval - and no excuses discipline in the school. No homework that requires extra books, laptops etc, everything that needs to be learned is done in school - homework can be a repeat exercise, colouring a poster etc. Teach good habits of punctuality and politeness in school along with self-respect. Teach presentation skills. Don't have low expectations, teach them Latin, Shakespeare, proper history with dates (no discovery learning it disadvantages the disadvantaged), proper science and maths, not just fun experiment stuff or political agendas. Go to the opera and the theatre (subsidise if necessary) and listen and play classical music in school, visit art galleries. Start when they are 4. Open the world to show it's more than they have at home. Some will respond and reject the lifestyle at home, some won't.

Schools do this!

OP posts:
babyproblems · 15/05/2026 23:50

I think you sound super judgemental.
You haven’t been sent to change the way people live their lives.. I find it quite arrogant that you see yourself as some sort of big ‘helper’ - it’s very self righteous. People vote and choose a political system / societal framework as life goes on. There isn’t really a right and wrong way to live (obviously not including violence / deliberate pain to others in that!). Live and let live.. most people do their best in life. For some people life is very hard and I suspect you don’t realise just how hard actually despite having some first hand witness to it. If you did I think you’d be somewhat more sympathetic and less judgemental. Xo

Youshouldbestrongerthanme · 15/05/2026 23:51

@ColdWeatherWarning Well the prison idea isn't going to work - where are the spaces for all of these many men coming from?

Isittimeformynapyet · 15/05/2026 23:51

echt · 15/05/2026 23:49

That should be There are so many errors in your post.

Ach! Ya got me. I've never been a teacher though.

LoremIpsumCici · 15/05/2026 23:51

KeeleyJ · 15/05/2026 23:46

I employed one of these kids (aged 16) when they left school (Council rent office). Wasn't like us to employ someone with no experience and 'just scraped by' Maths/English but we had a few vacancies and we wanted to give him a chance.

Had their hand in the till within days stealing money. Obviously sacked on the spot then arrested once we had passed the CCTV onto The Police. I've never employed a school leaver since except for summer students heading off to Uni. Unfortunately these kids have no aspirations and I can't see it changing.

Edited

There is a name for this, class prejudice. I linked a few studies on exactly this.

Tell me would you have applied the same logic to a female, nonwhite, nonBritish, gay, fat, or ginger school leaver?

tachetastic · 15/05/2026 23:54

LoremIpsumCici · 15/05/2026 23:41

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/brits-still-associate-working-class-accents-with-criminal-behaviour-study-warns-of-bias

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220505-the-regional-accentism-that-secretly-affects-job-prospects

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyjdyj729ro

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/about/news/britains-accent-bias-revealed-in-new-book/

https://accentbiasbritain.org/background/

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/oct/24/uk-top-universities-urged-act-classism-accent-prejudice

https://hrnews.co.uk/the-class-ceiling-classism-experienced-by-a-third-of-uk-employees/

https://www.fairplaytalks.com/2022/11/29/classism-rife-in-more-than-half-of-uks-workplaces/

https://www.york.ac.uk/research/impact/employment-prospects/

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1111/1467-954X.12286

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jan/30/the-guardian-view-on-the-class-crisis-in-the-arts-the-uks-culture-must-not-become-the-preserve-of-the-elite

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/inequalities/2025/02/26/we-need-to-talk-more-about-class/

https://bera-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/curj.198

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/280973149ClassinContemporaryBritainComparingtheCulturalCapitalandSocialExclusionCCSEProjectandtheGreatBritishClassSurveyGBCS

https://ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/classism-hate-crime-and-the-law-commissions-consultation-paper-250-lessons-from-discrimination-law/

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01973533.2025.2467273

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/01425692.2022.2045185

too many to link.

Edited

That is perfect to begin with. 🤣

Thank you. 🙏🏻

ColdWeatherWarning · 15/05/2026 23:56

Allonthesametrain · 15/05/2026 23:47

Totally agree! The education system should have changed years ago. Different types of schools should be available not just huge academies with GCSEs. This is an issue I've been strongly invested in and would love to change the draconian system.

The German system is great. Three types of secondary school: highly academic, technical/vocational and comprehensive. Some people here would probably complain that kids were 'sorted too early' though.

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