To wonder what else can be done to break the cycle of generations living off benefits?

[Allonthesametrain]

Sounds harsh because It is. As a former teacher, then eduation social worker, now the past few years more heavily involved with school attendance.

My desire has always been to help children from unprivileged backgrounds to know their worth and achieve the best they can and this has been my career from age 23 to 57.

The number of times I've cried, torn my hair out, is immeasurable. I and colleagues have gone above and beyond to support the families, genuinely care about them, but unfortunately the outcome has been, as I've said in title, it's a continiation of the cycle of being brought up within a small community and low expectations.

So many gorgeous kids (supported throughout their young lives until they leave school) who tell you their dreams of what they want to to achieve in life, we do everything we can to enable it and some have indeed broken out of the circle but unfortunately the reality has been...

Parents who live lifestyles of no bedtime routine, tell their kids not to come back before ...pm, sleep in and don't get them out of bed ready and fed for school and as for weekends, pub and take back a new bloke

Parents who have issues themselves and project them onto DC. The kids soon realise they can stay off school for feigning illness and would actually be a comfort to Mum

The parents who just cba and say shall we just still in bed?

Of course there are so many other mitigating factors but these are the 3 main experiences we've dealt with. Unfortunately it really does come down to poor parenting and no matter what interventions we do to encourage attendance, only a minority are genuine.

So the cycle...DC think education isn't important, parents are hopeless role models and can often be aggressive to teachers, a deflection of blame.

Then oh DD gets pregnant at age 15, DS has been reprimanded by the police for scooting around in a balaclava. Then pure hostility when we try to continue to talk to them and what could be done to help.

Basically it's just such a shame, these sweet young kids who say they want to be ... become so influenced by their homelife, a need to fit in with their family and peers from the same estate, that they ignore the support we give them, don't turn up to appointments etc.

For the genuine cases, DC with SEN, the effort to try and ensure they are in best place is utmost and it's heartbreaking there aren't enough of them. Yes, we do know genuine cases and not just so many parents striving for a diagnosis because they feed DC a terrible diet and let them stay up late so are tired and irritable at school.

Expecting some backlash, whatever anyone says I can reason with.

I’ve been reading the Nordic Theory of Everything. In some of those countries you get out of work benefits based on what you’ve paid on, up to 70% of your previous salary with ab cap. If you are minimum wage you’ll get less than that as benefits. There will be ways but it needs braver government.

Social mobility is a myth. It’s not in the interest of the rich to allow everyone to improve their social standing. To truly end the cycle we would have to abolish capitalism and adopt a more socialist approach. That isn’t going to happen, therefore the cycle of poverty will continue as big corporations need the working class, and lower middle class to do the low wage jobs. Housing needs to be more affordable. Living wage. Education needs a complete overhaul. Disability needs to stop being so heavily discriminated against. I could go on…

Oh and PLEASE PLEASE hold deadbeat dad's to account, at least financially.

Controversial but I'd make it even easier to have an abortion, far more socially acceptable, and DNA test every child to ensure their parents paid for it.

in theory they could , because its the nature vs nurture psychology perspective, many in theory should do better, but then at the same time some could still turn to criminality but it could be various factors

What does your first sentence, "These ok." mean?

pritty much this, but can you imagine saying to the public, forget capitalism you are all needing socialism,

AI.?

There is a small percentage of the population who are unemployable. They are completely incapable of turning up on time every day. I know I have employed some of them and got rid of them sharpish.

@Happytaytos My personal belief is it should be the responsibility of both biological parents to support their children financially.
I agree that there are many fathers out there who fail to do so, but I also think there are also many mothers who fail to do so too.

Also, I cannot believe that anyone who works with multiply disadvantaged families for decades suddenly thinks “oh - you mean the help we have been providing isn’t enough?! What’s it all for?!”

Everyone I know who works with families with multiple challenges basically knows what they are doing is unlikely to lead to change within one generation (or even ever). They just do it because it’s the human thing to do, and because the alternatives (as evidenced on this thread - I mean, there is some whack MAGA stuff going on) - are totally unacceptable verging on Nazi-type ideology. Putting the “underclass” in ghettos?? Are you for real??

You said to treat the poor like they treated criminals hundreds of years ago, only transport them to a different planet instead of a penal colony.

The criminals are the people keeping so much of society in poverty.

Do not think anyone is going to fall your gaslighting.

Hard to say. I grew up in one of these households. Deprived city, council estate, FSM kid. Nobody in my family went to uni or even college to be frank. Addiction, domestic violence, drug use. The one thing I found and had from a very early age was books. Couldn’t tell you why I got into them, my family certainly didn’t read! I just did and I loved them, I could escape and be in a totally different universe for a while. It saved me. I have a PhD and I’m a lecturer. I escaped and I thank literature for that.

I think the education system has largely improved since I was at school in the 00s. Back then it was literally like Lord of the Flies, if you survived the day you were lucky. My DC almost don’t believe me but at my secondary school the teachers had absolutely no control whatsoever. We all just run amok and did whatever the hell we liked. Smoked, played truant, got into fights, rang the smoke alarm for fun to skip lessons, lots of girls had babies before 16, furniture would be strewn across the classroom during fights, one French teacher lost it and got involved throwing a chair across the room but didn’t get fired?! It was carnage.

So I mean the education system has improved yet we still have the cycle of poverty. I always tell everyone I know to read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. I don’t think anyone ever listens to me but it explains poverty better than anyone I know.

Teen pregnancies have fallen massively in the last thirty years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy_in_the_United_Kingdom

these days even those sectors of the population opppsed to schools (eg travellers) let their kids finish primary rather than just not going.

these days every kid is entitled to an education rather than being quietly forgotten about (eg truancy in the 90s or disabled kids at any point up to the 1970s)

Why did you have three children with no means to support them though? Working as a teaching assistant is barely enough of a wage to live on by yourself, let alone with 3 children

because so far society has been able to prevent crime and people being criminals ? how many more years before many choose no crime ? and how many more years should the rest of law abiding society suffer because of criminal's ?

Alas I see it through work too, families that do work the system though I do think that the system of benefits doesn’t help because of cliff edges in the system. Only this week I had a mum saying she didn’t see why she should work for do little money when the “government would pay” otherwise and how could she write applications for pip for her and for Dla for her kids - I know them fairly well in that she’s a very open person I don’t see how they would be eligible but she says they “deserve” money

England is mine and it owes me a living.

i think overall, some people no matter what will turn into a criminal even if they had it all, and at the same time someone like yourself did excellent

No. This would reduce the number of jobs and councils & businesses would abuse this to get free labour. For example, instead of hiring cleaners, bin collectors, groundskeepers they will simply rotate in and out batches of unemployed people who are going to each work 20hrs for free.

🙄

Can you explain what you mean a bit more clearly?

I do think it's seen as more socially acceptable for women not to work than men.
That's not something I agree with.

because so far society has been able to prevent crime and people being criminals ?

😆 when were these crime free golden days of yore?

besides how is it classism because my idea would be a pure "banish all criminals" policy would hit across classes.

Teach them to read, that means phonics to automaticity plus a knowledge rich curriculum - this is the comprehension bit of reading. Use explicit teaching methods of that knowledge rich curriculum - interactive, lots of practice and retrieval - and no excuses discipline in the school. No homework that requires extra books, laptops etc, everything that needs to be learned is done in school - homework can be a repeat exercise, colouring a poster etc. Teach good habits of punctuality and politeness in school along with self-respect. Teach presentation skills. Don't have low expectations, teach them Latin, Shakespeare, proper history with dates (no discovery learning it disadvantages the disadvantaged), proper science and maths, not just fun experiment stuff or political agendas. Go to the opera and the theatre (subsidise if necessary) and listen and play classical music in school, visit art galleries. Start when they are 4. Open the world to show it's more than they have at home. Some will respond and reject the lifestyle at home, some won't.