To wonder what else can be done to break the cycle of generations living off benefits?

[Allonthesametrain]

Sounds harsh because It is. As a former teacher, then eduation social worker, now the past few years more heavily involved with school attendance.

My desire has always been to help children from unprivileged backgrounds to know their worth and achieve the best they can and this has been my career from age 23 to 57.

The number of times I've cried, torn my hair out, is immeasurable. I and colleagues have gone above and beyond to support the families, genuinely care about them, but unfortunately the outcome has been, as I've said in title, it's a continiation of the cycle of being brought up within a small community and low expectations.

So many gorgeous kids (supported throughout their young lives until they leave school) who tell you their dreams of what they want to to achieve in life, we do everything we can to enable it and some have indeed broken out of the circle but unfortunately the reality has been...

Parents who live lifestyles of no bedtime routine, tell their kids not to come back before ...pm, sleep in and don't get them out of bed ready and fed for school and as for weekends, pub and take back a new bloke

Parents who have issues themselves and project them onto DC. The kids soon realise they can stay off school for feigning illness and would actually be a comfort to Mum

The parents who just cba and say shall we just still in bed?

Of course there are so many other mitigating factors but these are the 3 main experiences we've dealt with. Unfortunately it really does come down to poor parenting and no matter what interventions we do to encourage attendance, only a minority are genuine.

So the cycle...DC think education isn't important, parents are hopeless role models and can often be aggressive to teachers, a deflection of blame.

Then oh DD gets pregnant at age 15, DS has been reprimanded by the police for scooting around in a balaclava. Then pure hostility when we try to continue to talk to them and what could be done to help.

Basically it's just such a shame, these sweet young kids who say they want to be ... become so influenced by their homelife, a need to fit in with their family and peers from the same estate, that they ignore the support we give them, don't turn up to appointments etc.

For the genuine cases, DC with SEN, the effort to try and ensure they are in best place is utmost and it's heartbreaking there aren't enough of them. Yes, we do know genuine cases and not just so many parents striving for a diagnosis because they feed DC a terrible diet and let them stay up late so are tired and irritable at school.

Expecting some backlash, whatever anyone says I can reason with.

It can be work that would not normally be done or attract pay such as gardening for pensioners who are unable to tend to their own gardens or carrying out some charitable work.

The idea is that people won’t want to do it for long as the prospect of FT employment would become more appealing.

You've only got to look at the North East of England and the ex mining villages, not to mention the ex ship building communities along the Tyne.

A teacher in a NE school. The perpetuation of poverty is tragic. Lovely, sharp, intelligent children, by far outstripping many of the very privileged children in some of the top private schools (because I've also taught in some of them), but condemned to a wasted life due to lack of opportunities.

It is very very hard to fight against what they're surrounded by, growing up.

Women all work. Just some of the work is not paid. That does not mean it has no worth.

@DogAnxiety I've worked all my adult life, including the number of years I was a single parent. It is my duty as a mother to financially provide for my children to the best of my ability (alongside the other bio parent).

Yeah i know, over 30 years experience actually doing the job to help families get out of it. Inwill take and give it back. Xxx

@Grammarnut Do men all work then?

I recently read Nick Gibbs’s new book on the curriculum reforms, read if you’re interested
in this. This is pretty much what the tories did during their time in government.

Blame the governments which said we could live off a service economy (we can't) and destroyed our industries and the communities they supported.

That wasn’t your idea. Your idea was to deport all poor people to another planet as if they were criminals like we used to transport to penal colonies.

Its not a crime to be born poor or stay poor.

If someone has viable alternatives and still chooses crime or being a criminal , then they should forfeit certain societal privileges. This isn't classism; it's basic accountability. Most ethical systems (retributivist justice, social contract theory) accept that rights aren't unlimited violent offenders can lose liberty. A high-tech prison planet could even be more humane than current overcrowded, violent earthly prisons if designed with resources, medical care, and autonomy.

so for any of you, tell me why my idea is wrong ? why should society have to bear criminals when they after being given options still want to be criminals ?

I admire your efforts but these sorts never let the facts stand in the way of a good argument.

Bang out a few dog whistles like teenage mums, staying in bed, low aspirations and then sit back and watch “man of the people” Nige get in. Such a grafter. Sorry, no, I mean grifter.

My source is my experience but I can't provide evidence as it's private.

The North East is a particularly sad story. Absolutely beautiful part of the world with lots to offer, I hope it turns around up there. South Yorkshire has similar issues, as does Wales.

i was not on about the poor, my answer was criminals not the poor, so apologies if i was not clear on my point

yes i just reread my previous post, apologies yes i should have said criminals

Anyone receiving benefits is very simplistic considering the different circumstances people receive benefits in the first place. They aren't all the same and it wouldn't be possible for anyone receiving benefits to work for 20 hours.

Also, what would happen to the people who currently do community work type jobs? As pp said, it would be simply used so businesses etc didn't have to hire people to clean and such like when they can get people in without paying them a wage.

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that moving upwards to a higher socioeconomic status is an incredibly difficult to do in this country. Just search “why is social mobility so difficult to achieve”.

@Grammarnut
How can you teach anything to those children who are non or poor attenders? What should be done about this cohort?

But the PP isn’t feeding and clothing her children, the government is.

Oh come on. I don’t know where you live but generations living off benefits is definitely a thing in the large council estate near where I live. It is a thing. Learning how to play the system so being on benefits is way more profitable than starting bottom rung of a career and working way up.

@LoremIpsumCici: Studies on classism in the UK show that even a slightly wrong accent or not having been on holiday to the right places can put you out of the running for even entry level for professional roles.

Could you share these studies please? I would be genuinely interested to read something evidence based on this. 🙏

Are you saying parents and you mean single mums?

Gardeners deserve a wage. It’s hard work and takes a lot of botanical knowledge and training.

Charities and businesses depend too much on volunteers as it is. I’m sure you read about the young autistic man that Waitrose has working for them for FREE for years and then dismissed him the second his mum asked if perhaps one or two of his shifts could be PAID at NMW.

Making it easier for free labour to be demanded of the very poor is regressive and is only going to reduce the number of FT jobs available. It will increase unemployment. It’s not going to help anyone find or get experience that will land them a FT job because the businesses will just cycle in and out a new benefit recipient.

We already see this widespread abuse in fake apprenticeships (like apprentice fish and chip fryer or apprentice cashier & retail sales at Next) so businesses can get away with paying less than minimum wage for a FT worker in a basic job and when one apprenticeship is ‘done’ there’s no FT NMW job at the end of it, no the apprentice is sacked on some spurious excuse and a new one brought in.

Oh I'm not typically mc and the things we've about I wouldn't want to divulge to MN for fear of being too unpalatable! Some families do tell me really shocking things and I don't raise a brow, I just chat.

I don’t know what the solution is OP but it’s heartbreaking for these kids. There was a boy in my son’s class. Lovely boy in reception and clearly so bright, as years gone on his mum has had 3 more kids by 3 different dads. By year 5 he’s barely in school. The headteacher even goes to his house to walk him to school but he stays up playing PlayStation until early hours or morning. His mum doesn’t give a shit about him and thinks school is a waste of time: such a shame as he’s such a bright boy and had so much potential.

Encourage people not to have children if they don't really want them. Too many people just shrug and drift into doing it "because that's what you do, right?".

Get rid of the stigma of abortion. Encourage contraception use and educate more. There's still too much ignorance about it. "Pull out method" is not a method, FFS idiots.

Seriously punish fathers (it is nearly always fathers) who abandon their kids. In the USA, men are terrified of the prospect of being forced to pay child support for 18 years, or lose their driving licence or go to prison. Why are we so soft here? Allowing men to never pay a penny?