AIBU to compare pro-Palestine and Tommy Robinson-led protests? Both involve hatred antisemitism or racism and both end up in trouble. Two cheeks of the same ass as I've heard on here before!

[HeyHoHenryHippy]

Pro-Palestine and Tommy Robinson-led protests this Saturday with yet again thousands of officers having to spend the day controling these protests. Surely there is a better way. Static protest or once a month for Gaza? I think Tommy's lot isn't weekly like the Gaza lot.

Antisemitism is a major problem and general racism also up. Armoured vehicles are needed now with the first time in 15 years to use them. Terror incidents have risen yet what have either of these 'protests' achieved apart from further divisions!

Stick them in separate areas and tell them to stand with their various placards and keep them there. They ave their virtue signalling and hate fuelled moments but stop annoying the rest of us and keep the costs down - it's costing millions of pounds.

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15816041/Met-Police-call-armoured-cars-London-braces-day-pro-Palestine-Tommy-Robinson-led-protests.html

Perhaps if Starmer put as much energy into calling out the soul destroying behaviour that jihadists exhibit as he did to British patriots that would be a good start. He has to hope the arrests from the provoked patriots will outnumber the real extremists. Either way, his statement has sealed his fate. Burnham has no chance of that seart now. Well played Starmer for selling your soul .

Yes you're right but it's more nuanced then that though isn't it? Is calling for a 2 (or 3) state solution calling for the destruction of Israel? What about asking Israel to cede territory- is that destruction? What if there was one country but Palestinians living in it had equal rights to current Israelis? Is that destruction because it wouldn't exactly be a Jewish state any more? Even Zionists talking amongst themselves dont agree on these things.

There is undoubtably an element within the protests calling for Israel to be wiped from the maps, plus others who find it expedient to jold all Jews accountable for the actions of the Israeli state but equally there's an element in the UK eager to shut down discussion of any kind of Palestinian sovereignty by labelling it antisemitism. So moderate voices on both sides are shut down and were just left with the extremist voices being the only ones heard. Its a mess and (in the UK) the people paying the price for it are British Jews.

I don't think it's that nuanced for some people. Their definite preference is that Israel doesn't exist as a Jewish state. Any solution where there isn't a Jewish state is calling for the destruction of Israel.

People who say they want 'a single state where Jews and Palestinians can live in harmony' are 1) deluded and 2) definitely not wanting a Jewish state and incidentally 3) on the side of Hamas and other terrorist organisations.

What if there was one country but Palestinians living in it had equal rights to current Israelis?

Where would Hamas go in that case?
And who exactly would be in charge of such a country?

That's ironic as the person I most recently heard arguing for this was a secular Israeli and he's most definitely a believer in Jews having a state, just not a religious one. But perhaps you don't believe people count as Jewish if they dont follow the religion (history would suggest otherwise)?

Out of interest, do you believe that the UK being a Christian country means that people of other religions or none should have no rights here?

“Jews should have a state but not a religious one” sounds remarkably fudge-like. If it is a country where Jews and Palestinians live in equal harmony with nothing religious about the state, then how is it a Jewish state?

There are no shortage of fundamentalist Islamic States for those that want them but I think the hope is that Hamas would experience a drastic fall in membership /die out.

And I'd assume the country would be governed by a democratically elected government the composition of which would balance both secular and religious factions. Maybe with some devolved powers to the regions? I dont think there is one set model for the idea any more than there's one for a two or three state solution.

I think it is likely to be quite fudge-like - conpromise solutions often are. And this isn't "my" solution because Im neither Jewish or Israeli, I just have family who are and they talk about it a lot (and they dont agree about the way forward either).

Anyway, from what I understand it what he and others envisage wouldnt be a state with nothing religious about it but one where religious and secular factions are more balanced, where the ultra-orthodox have a voice (and maybe dedicated seats in government, a bit like we have bishops in the house of lords) but less of a stranglehold on politics and fewer exemptions from things like military service. And you'd integrate Palestinians into that so they'd both be citizens but also have dedicated seats on governmental bodies, or a Minister for Palestinian Affairs or devolve powers to regions such as Gaza or the West Bank - Im sure there are plenty of ways it could be done, whether you'd be able to reach agreement is another matter.
Immigration-wise a country where those of Jewish heritage have a right to citizenship as it is now, but where that right is extended to those of Palestinian heritage (and then you get to discuss what that means and how far it extends).

It's not a perfect solution and may never be possible or even the best or most popular solution but I dont see why even wanting to discuss it makes a person a Hamas sympathiser. Can a Jewish state only be Jewish if its Jewish in isolation? Is the UK less of a Christian state if we tolerate other religions here (Tommy Robinson certainly thinks so).

How likely is it though that Hamas, who called for the destruction of Israel in their funding charter, who meticulously planned and executed the most horrendous terrorist attack only a few years ago, will suddenly become all reasonable and retreat to other countries instead of trying to grab power in the newly established state for Jews and Palestinians?

Sounds like a pipe dream.

The idea of a nice, equal, power sharing operation does seem rather like wishful thinking and assumes that the surrounding states really don't hate Jews, but merely Israel.

This is rather damaged by slogans like 'Death to Israel and a Curse Upon Jews'.

Perhaps but that still doesn't explain why you consider supporting it equivalent to supporting Hamas, even when it's an Israeli doing it? I thought it was only solutions calling for the destruction of Israel or denying it's citizens the right to self-determination that were considered anti-semitic.
Which routes to a possible peace do you think can be legitimately discussed in Israel and internationally?

I didn't say supporting Hamas, I said on the side of Hamas, who also call for a single Palestinian state where Jews will live in harmony with Palestinians.

They are rather more clear-sighted about it though when they insist it will be a Muslim state.

Your Israeli friend seems a bit on the confused side when he says he wants a Jewish state but not a religious one but it would be equally shared with Muslims who would be in a majority and who definitely want a Muslim state - and absolutely a religious one. He's possibly more on the deluded side of things.

A Jewish man said he wanted to behead every Jew? I didn’t hear about that, I presume he was including himself then!

Nobody said you had to share the opinion of Jewish people on the marches, but you should respect their right to have a different opinion to you. They don’t claim to represent the whole Jewish community. The fact that their opinion is different to yours shouldn’t make you feel threatened, and it doesn’t make them hateful.

Why do the ones on the marches being wheeled out as the 'correct' representatives of the Jewish community? People tend to use them to speak over Jews who are not on the marches and who feel intimidated by them.

It's extremely noticeable.

I don’t feel threatened by the couple hundred Jews marching in circles. I feel threatened by thousands of people of any religion shouting for violence and death. And I feel very threatened by children threatening my children at school quoting the hate march slogans and I feel extremely threatened by the constant and never ending suggestion that my country should cease to exist.

Family, not friend. These are my family you are talking about, these deluded Jews whose opinions dont count and must be silenced because they dont match your own (they dont go to protest marches if that's what you're worried about).

And on that note perhaps we should leave it.

How exactly am I 'silencing' your family member? By saying I think they're deluded if they think their idea is even remotely feasible?

What a strange accusation.

No one is trying to silence anyone.
Do your family members think Hamas will just withdraw peacefully?
Right now, they’re threatening their own people while refusing to disarm.
How exactly will their attitude suddenly change if there’s one state for all?

I'm watching the Tommy march live on X. Not one hateful comment from speakers so far. Starmer / Khan are trying to paint hundreds of thousands of people as far right. They're just right.

The far right accusations gets flung around like racist or genocide.

Hamas don't seem to go easily though. They are still there ruining Gaza. Rebuilding wont happen until the terrorists fuck off, but they won't. They'd happily rape every Jewish woman and kill every Jewish person.

Except it’s the Israelis who are the aggressors in Gaza, as everyone knows.

TR thanking Elon Musk and America for fighting for free speech in the UK.
Back up a bit T.
Free speech in America is only approved if it aligns with Trumps ideals.
Dept of war...only pre approved questions and articles published.
White House press office..any awkward questions ridiculed,female journalists ridiculed,qualified and experienced journalists banned from WH.
Podcaster types ,influencers that suck up to Trump brought in.

The world cup..checking visiting fans SM for Anti America sentiment.
In other words criticism of Trump

Land of the Free

Are you fucking sure on that one Tommy.
More to Free speech than being all to spew racist rhetoric.
Your photo last year with the number 88 bus
Extreme far right 88=HH=Heil Hitler=no coincidence .