AIBU to compare pro-Palestine and Tommy Robinson-led protests? Both involve hatred antisemitism or racism and both end up in trouble. Two cheeks of the same ass as I've heard on here before!

[HeyHoHenryHippy]

Pro-Palestine and Tommy Robinson-led protests this Saturday with yet again thousands of officers having to spend the day controling these protests. Surely there is a better way. Static protest or once a month for Gaza? I think Tommy's lot isn't weekly like the Gaza lot.

Antisemitism is a major problem and general racism also up. Armoured vehicles are needed now with the first time in 15 years to use them. Terror incidents have risen yet what have either of these 'protests' achieved apart from further divisions!

Stick them in separate areas and tell them to stand with their various placards and keep them there. They ave their virtue signalling and hate fuelled moments but stop annoying the rest of us and keep the costs down - it's costing millions of pounds.

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15816041/Met-Police-call-armoured-cars-London-braces-day-pro-Palestine-Tommy-Robinson-led-protests.html

Excellent post.

The level of debate on this thread is shockingly low. Why the endless talk of gotchas? Good grief. And all the not so subtly calling people antisemites because you disagree with them? Honestly

No I never edited the substance of anything I said. You are the one who thinks zionist is a slur, i don’t care much why you think that tbh. I just don’t care who gives him money unless they pose a material threat to the UK, but given you care it looks like he’s been given money by americans not the Israeli government. Israel poses no threat to the UK and is actually an ally. If you take money from places like Russia or Qatar thats a problem imo.

So let me get this right, through comparison your post before this one.

It is ok to criticise IDF soldier for killing children, even if you are not making this accusation in other wars and not looking at Hamas's responsibility in the deaths of their own children, and not looking at what the IDF did to reduce civilian casualties or what Hamas did to maximise them.

But its not ok to call people anti-Semitic when they are demonising the only Jewish state and applying standards and criticisms to the only Jewish state that the don't apply elsewhere?

You are using a circular argument. Criticising the Israeli state is not “demonising” it.

But you are effectively confirming that you think it is antisemitic to criticise the Israeli state.

I think no-one, and no state are above criticism and I think it is a very dangerous road to go down to set some people or states above criticism.

Why would I expect you to review some random influencer?

It is when you are not criticising Palestine and Hamas for killing children, raping children and women and parading their bodies in public and for their geocide of the Jewish race in Israel.

Well we've had a poster link to some 'youtube clip' by a yanky 'influencer' to prove a point, then also to wikipedia. So.....

No I am not saying you can’t criticize the Israeli state. Many Israelis do that, just as many British people criticize our government.

I am applying a criteria to distinguish legitimate criticism from racism against the Israeli nation.

That test is whether the criticism is delegitimising the Israeli state ( arguing against Israel’s right to exist), demonizing Israel ( the killing children accusation) , double standards ( not accusing accusing other warring states of being baby killers).

I’ve lived through quite a few wars and read about wars and I don’t ever remember this ‘child killer’ accusation being made before. Not even the Nazis got this accusation and they actually were deliberately killing children and outside of warfare. The accusation is a clear example of demonization to make Israel look inhumanly cruel and bloodthirsty. And the double standard of Hamas not getting this accusation when they have conducted themselves in a way that maximizes deaths of their own children, and did deliberately target children and babies for murder on October 7th and children taken hostage ( the Bibas boys who were choked to death by Hamas) just makes the racist thinking behind these arguments even clearer.

Of course countries engage in propaganda, particularly when at war. What’s unusual there?

We sent King Charles over to the US to ‘influence’ them. He costs us a fortune.

Propaganda in war very common - see for example all the Lego propaganda from the IRGC.

A lot of people in the West finding that very amusing.

They will miss laughing about it and sharing it when the IRGC becomes a proscribed terrorist organisation which will happen in the next Parliament apparently. Killjoys!

I don’t think pp thinks it’s antisemitic to criticise the Israeli state per se.
But when Israel is singled out as somehow uniquely evil, that’s an issue.
What pp said was:

It is ok to criticise IDF soldier for killing children, even if you are not making this accusation in other wars and not looking at Hamas's responsibility in the deaths of their own children, and not looking at what the IDF did to reduce civilian casualties or what Hamas did to maximise them.

Russia has killed children in their war of aggression against Ukraine, yet I haven’t really seen Russians in general being called 'baby killers', definitely not at the rate it happens to Israelis.

In the words of the late great Edwin Starr
'war what is it good for
Absolutely nothing
It's a heartbreaker
And only a friend to the undertaker'

I agree that "baby killers" seems an accusation uniquely directed at Israel.

There has been a formal complaint made against the Met Chief for his lies:

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/formal-complaint-made-about-met-chief-over-nakba-demonstration-smears/

so you think Israel's response to Oct 7 is justified?

over an estimated 100,000 tonnes of explosives have been dropped on Gaza and you're happy to sit back in your living room and watch that happen?

I go on the Marches because I can't sit back and watch it happen.

That's the difference between the Mothers on the Marches and the Mothers who come on here trying to say we are all antisemites for going on the Marches.

So you think Oct 7 is justified? I have yet to hear people who go on these marches either condemn Oct 7 or Hamas, let alone both. When they do, then I will care. Oct 7 started it, and people need to realise it and condemn it first.

I'm still waiting for your proof of Marches that have walked past synagogues and in Jewish areas - you make a claim like that, show me your proof.

Ah so that's where your level of knowledge is at.

Is that how you justify it in your conscience? You choose not to know anything other than Oct 7?

How many people do you know personally who go on the Marches who have shared their reasons for marching with you? I would love to know.

You're the one who justifies it in your conscience to defend an abhorrent attack on Jewish people. Where have you ever once on this site expressed regret at the actions of Hamas on October 7?

You first, since the side you defend started it.

Perhaps expand your own knowledge, other than blindly defending the instigator.

Okay? So the Palestine Coalition has complained, and? What exactly does that prove?
From your link:

The legal letter (posted below) refers to recent antisemitic smears Rowley made in the media about our movement and the over 30 peaceful marches for Palestine rights we have organised since October 2023.

I had a quick look for examples of antisemitic smears made by Rowley in their document, but didn’t find any. Do you have any examples? Or do they just mean by that that he accused them of antisemitism? A weird way to phrase it in that case.

Reminds me a bit of people calling Trevor Phillips antisemitic just because he pointed out that Zack Polanski’s experience doesn’t represent the experience of all Jews.

You’ve disregarded the official MET statement simply because Palestine Coalition complained about Mark Rowley.
Not sure there is any proof out there that would convince you 🤷‍♀️

This thread seems to be getting focused on Palestine/Israel situation and it's a detestable war.
But nearer to home TR and his kind are a serious threat to the UK.
For decades the extreme far right have attempted to create a race war.
As I've posted before the message is always the same.
Only difference methods of spreading that message has changed.

Exactly. The 'but some Jews march' or 'but some black people march'. So what. Some of the chants and slogans are extremely offensive and also hate speech. Just because some march along doesn't make it ok.