Does this sound like neurodivergence or a sensitive temperament?

[kvazzy]

Hi everyone,

Posting on AIBU for traffic.

I’m trying to make sense of my DD’s profile and would really appreciate balanced perspectives, especially from parents of neurodivergent children or people who know this area well.

My DD has just turned 5 and is in Reception. Overall she is doing well. School are happy with her progress, she is developing well academically and teachers say she is on track. She also does well in structured activities such as tennis, ballet and singing. Teachers/coaches generally give positive feedback. She has a lot of energy, but can also concentrate.

What makes me wonder about neurodivergence:

• She is very emotionally intense and can get very upset over things that may seem small.
• She finds losing, being second, or another child being “first” very hard. For example, if another child overtakes her on a bike or runs ahead of her, she can become very upset and say she doesn’t want to be friends with that child anymore, although this does not last.
• She can take refusal very personally. If another child doesn’t want to play her game or do something together, she can experience it almost as rejection of the whole friendship.
• She can be quite controlling in play. She loves children and wants to play, but sometimes wants very intense, close interaction and struggles when the other child wants space or wants to do things differently.
• She has some sensory sensitivities: hair brushing, hair washing, nail cutting. We have to put a cartoon on while doing all these things.
• She can be perfectionistic. She has said things like “I am not good enough” and can become very upset if her writing or numbers don’t look right.
• She is very sensitive to criticism or correction and can become upset if we point out mistakes.
• She can resist everyday demands such as dressing, handwashing and stopping play. We often have to make these tasks playful or interesting for her.
• She can be very shy around other people at first, especially adults.

What makes me less sure it is neurodivergence:

• She is very socially motivated and has always loved being around children.
• She has rich imaginative play and creates lots of different scenarios and games.
• Her play is flexible in the sense that she invents new games all the time, rather than repeating one rigid script.
• She generally does well at school and in structured classes.
• She can follow instructions and wait her turn in after-school clubs.
• She has good language and can often explain her feelings afterwards. For example, after one big upset with friends and craft materials, she later told me she was scared the other children would take her things without asking.
• She usually recovers after meltdowns and can go back to playing happily.
• She seems very empathic and relationship-focused, sometimes almost too much so.

I suppose what confuses me is that she is not withdrawn or socially uninterested at all. If anything, she is intensely social, very imaginative, bright, energetic and sensitive. But she struggles a lot with rejection, losing, sharing control, and feeling that her things or her place in the group are at risk.

Does this sound more like possible neurodivergence, or more like a highly sensitive / intense / strong-willed child who needs support with emotional regulation and social flexibility?

You don't mean it nicely

Thanks @MyTrivia I am still a bit concerned regarding the issues I posed about and I will speak with her teacher. Will also keep an eye on the other signs / areas other people mentioned. It sounds like a complex condition too that could be easily missed (and I would not want that!)

That's ok @nonamenancynoo I think ND is quite a sensitive topic and some inaccurate words can really hit the nerve!

Oh yes I did. I don’t snark on MN.

It was a serious reply and not meant rudely at all. I was very politely (at least I thought so) trying to point out that your assumptions probably weren’t going to get you where you wanted to go, ie understanding your daughter better.

Threads like these always irritate mums of ND children because it almost seems like the OPs wants people to tell them their child is ND instead of taking them to an actual professional and being told no your child isn’t ND, because 9/10 these threads are describing perfectly normal behaviours for a child.

Well I don't know what to say... I don't think every mum of a ND kid was irritated by this thread. It looks like some were happy to share their experience and wisdom. I got some good ideas here, i.e. to speak with a DD's teacher.

Is she an only child @kvazzy ?
it sounds like the description of an only or one who has a huge age gap between siblings.
if you don’t know enough about nd to decide whether this is worth pursuing or not, use repources, there’s an autistic society, you can find online versions of the medical assessment criteria etc.

It came across fine to me, and factual

Thank you @Holidaymodeon I will have a look at their website.

Yes, she is an only child.

You could have been describing my DD in your post OP. She is six now and school have raised some concerns around her concentration, following instructions, sensory seeking and processing. She also is very social and loves imaginary play like your DD. She is awaiting an assessment for what is likely to be ADHD if anything. Not because I am keen to “label” her as suggested on this thread by posters, but because I want her to get the support she needs to achieve her potential.

Quite a lot from your description matches my personal experience of ADHD as well as my 7yo who has it. Intense friendships and difficulty with relationships is a less known trait of ADHD. But equally a lot of it can be completely normal and just down to personality. Five is still very young to tell. It usually starts to become more apparent in years 1 and 2 as the work becomes more structured and they start to noticeably struggle with focus, behaviour etc, whilst their peers progress.

As previous posters have said, it would be worth having a chat with the teacher and/or SENCO to get their views.

Thanks for sharing this @TeflonMom Have you noticed any of the ADHD signs at home? Or was it put of the blue when the school raised it?

Thanks @Restlessdreams1994

Were you and your DS diagnosed with ADHD? If so, what age was he diagnosed and did you do through the private route?

Yes, she’s always been a very intense child even as a baby. Very defiant, aggressive with other children until she was 4+, runs away, she fixates on new things for a while and will then move on for example if she has a new cuddly toy, she swings out of doors etc while watching tv, jumps off the furniture a lot, loses it if she loses a game of snap, sometimes struggles to fall asleep at night. She is also very bright and tremendous fun, other kids are drawn to her like a magnet

Speak to her teacher..? but you have already said in your original OP that school is happy and you get positive feedback from her teachers/coaches.
87% of this thread think you are being unreasonable, ie its sounds like normal behaviours for a 5yo (correct me pps if i am wrong) but you will listen to the 13% that say there might be and push for that.

All the things you are worried indicate neurodivergence are very very normal in 5 year olds

They aren't known for being keen on hair washing /nail cutting /hair brushing

Many avoid washing their hands

Most of them HATE losing and lots will flounce from a game if they realise they are not going to win

Thanks for sharing this. Some bits sounds a bit like DD but milder. For example, she would not be aggressive to kids but can get offended/lash out/make a tantrum.

She is also very active but thankfully she normally listens to the authority figures, follows the school' rules (but will question DH's and mine rules! 🥴).

I get your point about a magnet. DD can be fun and charming. Also likes to invent new games and drag other kids into them. I sometimes feel a bit guilty as think she is too bossy with other girls.

Not at all, I listen to both sides. I am just being quite careful as some people mentioned ND is a condition that's easy to miss in the girls. I don't think I am doing any harm in questioning it here - it does not happen in front of DD 🙂

Ok well my input would be she sounds perfectly fine.
I have 2 ND children, and 2 suspected ND that we have not got a diagnosis for but have been approached by teachers that they suspect ND (as do we)but that they are managing well so going through the process of a diagnosis at this point we feel is unnecessary, should they choose to later in life will be up to them.
My 2 diagnosed children have Autism and the 2 suspected is 1 ADHD and 1 Autism with ADHD- she already has a dyslexia diagnosis.

My stims were repetitive phrases and a few noises, hopping from foot to foot and some face pulling. All less obvious than my son's spinning, bouncing and flapping. I also chewed everything from grass to pen tops.

Could go either way, only a rigorous psychological test and assessment can tell you one way or the other. The symptoms you are looking for ( repetition, social skills absence etc) are the hallmarks of ASD in boys, not girls In the meantime I would recommend that you read this book by Emily Katie, Girl Unmasked. It will give you an idea of how to think of ASD in girls.

She sounds like my grandson and I’m convinced he is ADHD as we have it in the family. Keep an eye on her as some of these are normal things she may grow out of as she’s still young.

You are getting examples of Autism and ADHD. There is also AuDHD. It is very complicated www.autism360.com/audhd-understanding-autism-and-adhd-together/. Obviously she could also be NT.

If she’s happy and thriving, I really wouldn’t worry greatly. She doesn’t need immediate assessment at that stage.

Wow my 7 year old has recently gone through exactly the same. Sounded a bit like OPs child when younger, then in the last year has developed anxiety/phobias (including emetophobia) and found it hard to attend school (particularly trips) and other social engagements.

I always doubted myself as a parent even though I knew deep down it was harder than it should be (or is typical) to get her through a regular day. School have now raised autism as a possibility.

I know a few people with daughters who all had bad anxiety and struggled to attend school but they weren’t diagnosed until shit really hit the fan mental health wise as a teen. Hoping to swerve that with early understanding and support.