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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Does this sound like neurodivergence or a sensitive temperament?

180 replies

kvazzy · Yesterday 22:23

Hi everyone,

Posting on AIBU for traffic.

I’m trying to make sense of my DD’s profile and would really appreciate balanced perspectives, especially from parents of neurodivergent children or people who know this area well.

My DD has just turned 5 and is in Reception. Overall she is doing well. School are happy with her progress, she is developing well academically and teachers say she is on track. She also does well in structured activities such as tennis, ballet and singing. Teachers/coaches generally give positive feedback. She has a lot of energy, but can also concentrate.

What makes me wonder about neurodivergence:

  • She is very emotionally intense and can get very upset over things that may seem small.
  • She finds losing, being second, or another child being “first” very hard. For example, if another child overtakes her on a bike or runs ahead of her, she can become very upset and say she doesn’t want to be friends with that child anymore, although this does not last.
  • She can take refusal very personally. If another child doesn’t want to play her game or do something together, she can experience it almost as rejection of the whole friendship.
  • She can be quite controlling in play. She loves children and wants to play, but sometimes wants very intense, close interaction and struggles when the other child wants space or wants to do things differently.
  • She has some sensory sensitivities: hair brushing, hair washing, nail cutting. We have to put a cartoon on while doing all these things.
  • She can be perfectionistic. She has said things like “I am not good enough” and can become very upset if her writing or numbers don’t look right.
  • She is very sensitive to criticism or correction and can become upset if we point out mistakes.
  • She can resist everyday demands such as dressing, handwashing and stopping play. We often have to make these tasks playful or interesting for her.
  • She can be very shy around other people at first, especially adults.

What makes me less sure it is neurodivergence:

  • She is very socially motivated and has always loved being around children.
  • She has rich imaginative play and creates lots of different scenarios and games.
  • Her play is flexible in the sense that she invents new games all the time, rather than repeating one rigid script.
  • She generally does well at school and in structured classes.
  • She can follow instructions and wait her turn in after-school clubs.
  • She has good language and can often explain her feelings afterwards. For example, after one big upset with friends and craft materials, she later told me she was scared the other children would take her things without asking.
  • She usually recovers after meltdowns and can go back to playing happily.
  • She seems very empathic and relationship-focused, sometimes almost too much so.

I suppose what confuses me is that she is not withdrawn or socially uninterested at all. If anything, she is intensely social, very imaginative, bright, energetic and sensitive. But she struggles a lot with rejection, losing, sharing control, and feeling that her things or her place in the group are at risk.

Does this sound more like possible neurodivergence, or more like a highly sensitive / intense / strong-willed child who needs support with emotional regulation and social flexibility?

OP posts:
PlimptonInSummertown · Yesterday 22:26

I mean this very kindly but it’s ridiculous to think that “neurodivergent” people aren’t ever social, empathetic, or relationship-focused. You might want to start by figuring out what you think you mean by “neurodivergent” and examining your knowledge and preconceptions.

Again I mean it nicely, you just really don’t sound very well informed.

JLou08 · Yesterday 22:38

Why are you trying to figure our the 'profile' of a 5 year old who is doing well? Just let her be.

kvazzy · Yesterday 22:38

PlimptonInSummertown · Yesterday 22:26

I mean this very kindly but it’s ridiculous to think that “neurodivergent” people aren’t ever social, empathetic, or relationship-focused. You might want to start by figuring out what you think you mean by “neurodivergent” and examining your knowledge and preconceptions.

Again I mean it nicely, you just really don’t sound very well informed.

Yes, I might not be. You sound like you know much more about it - what do you think about the DD?

OP posts:
kvazzy · Yesterday 22:40

JLou08 · Yesterday 22:38

Why are you trying to figure our the 'profile' of a 5 year old who is doing well? Just let her be.

Do you think what I am describing are not fairly big issues?

OP posts:
Cooshawn · Yesterday 22:40

I don't know why you're so eager to label her, but what you've written just sounds like a child who likes/wants to get her own way all the time.

MyIcyHeart · Yesterday 22:46

kvazzy · Yesterday 22:40

Do you think what I am describing are not fairly big issues?

As the parent of actually Autistic and ADHD children, no I would say that what you have described are "fairly big issues"; quite the contrary.

SueKeeper · Yesterday 22:47

I dont see very much on the ND list to suggest anything at all that isn't just kind of bratty and things you can easily teach her.

No five year old is fully formed, you can teach her to be a good losers, that she can't always win, to consider other people's feelings. A ND diagnosis isn't going to give you a free pass from that part of parenting.

Is she an only child? If she is she is just learning at school the things other kids learned at home already, not always getting to be the centre of everything. There's nothing in her "profile" about this any more than kids whose parents play football with them learning more ball skills and you putting "bad at football," in a profile for her.

Less reading about parenting and more hands on is the solution.

BirdIsBoredOfFlying · Yesterday 22:47

You’ve described my 5 year old daughter pretty much to a tee. I’ve never really considered her to be anything other than relatively strong willed, potentially with some sensory sensitivity (which I also have). She definitely struggles more with all these things when she’s tired.

Pricelessadvice · Yesterday 22:47

People have different characters and personalities. It doesn’t mean they have a condition.
She is very young and still figuring things out because she’s learning how to navigate social interactions.
Stop looking for an issue that may or may not be there. She is very young still.

kvazzy · Yesterday 22:51

Cooshawn · Yesterday 22:40

I don't know why you're so eager to label her, but what you've written just sounds like a child who likes/wants to get her own way all the time.

Not eager to label, just don't want to miss anything...

OP posts:
Melancholyflower · Yesterday 22:52

Cooshawn · Yesterday 22:40

I don't know why you're so eager to label her, but what you've written just sounds like a child who likes/wants to get her own way all the time.

And needs to learn to accept losing/not being the best/the world doesn't revolve around her etc.

kvazzy · Yesterday 22:53

MyIcyHeart · Yesterday 22:46

As the parent of actually Autistic and ADHD children, no I would say that what you have described are "fairly big issues"; quite the contrary.

Ok, thanks. I might exaggerate it in my head and see it worse than it actually is

OP posts:
kvazzy · Yesterday 22:56

SueKeeper · Yesterday 22:47

I dont see very much on the ND list to suggest anything at all that isn't just kind of bratty and things you can easily teach her.

No five year old is fully formed, you can teach her to be a good losers, that she can't always win, to consider other people's feelings. A ND diagnosis isn't going to give you a free pass from that part of parenting.

Is she an only child? If she is she is just learning at school the things other kids learned at home already, not always getting to be the centre of everything. There's nothing in her "profile" about this any more than kids whose parents play football with them learning more ball skills and you putting "bad at football," in a profile for her.

Less reading about parenting and more hands on is the solution.

She is an only child, yes. DH and I are close to "gentle parenting" approach (but would always interfere if she behaves badly).

The issues got worse when she stated Reception (I did not think it could be connected)

OP posts:
kvazzy · Yesterday 22:58

Pricelessadvice · Yesterday 22:47

People have different characters and personalities. It doesn’t mean they have a condition.
She is very young and still figuring things out because she’s learning how to navigate social interactions.
Stop looking for an issue that may or may not be there. She is very young still.

It might not be there. I just wanted to hear from people with experience with ND kids/educators. It's just to ensure I am not missing anything at this point

OP posts:
Greengagesnfennel · Yesterday 23:17

I think that all sounds like normal 5yo child behaviour to me.

You, however, are doing way more scrutinising of DD actions than a normal parent I think.

These are ordinary day to day interactions for a 5yo. For eg Some kids are naturally competitive and are bad losers. Some are not. Neither is better than the other we are all just different. Whichever you have, you need to help them learn managing skills to deal with the other personality type, and at 5 you are expecting too much to think this is some kind of ready-made skill set they magically have. If she has just started school after having no brothers and sisters at home she has probably just had a bit of a baptism of fire of not being top dog. I bet the adults in her life have usually let her win till now.

Give her a bit of a break - try to put yourself in her shoes. Starting reception after being Number 1 at home is a big deal and a nt child would feel this. She has a lot on her plate right now.

lauraloulou1 · Yesterday 23:22

This just sounds like brattish behaviour? Is she an only child? Do you correct her when she has meltdowns about not being first? I would try to do so - she is not 2 and this behaviour will not fly longer term. These are not neurodivergent traits, these are just the traits of a child that is over indulged and turning into a bit of a nightmare...

Poppingby · Yesterday 23:26

People saying your 5 yr old is bratty need to give themselves a shake. Yes, she's 5. "Bratty" behaviour comes with the territory.

Op I have 2 girls one ND and one ND To be perfectly honest, your description could apply to either of them at that age. I realise that's not very helpful but your ND list is full of things NT children do and vice versa. Being a bad loser is about being 5. Being too empathetic could be ND or not.

I say keep an eye on her and if she starts to struggle, feel sad a lot, have real friendship difficulties, have a chat to the teacher and ask for a referral.

NeurodivergentBurnout · Yesterday 23:37

I’m ND. I suspect DD is (she’s not diagnosed, she’s doing too well in school to meet criteria for assessment).
I’d be less worried about DD and more worried about you. Is this the 6th thread you’ve posted about this now? Do you have health anxiety?
Ultimately managing ND, diagnosed or not, is about being understanding about the individual’s needs and adjusting as is reasonable. Honestly though. Get some help..

Thefrenchconnection1 · Yesterday 23:46

Mum of 4 here with lots of diagnosed and undiagnosed ND experience in real life in a variety of environments.
Sounds like elements of some of my dcs.
None diagnosed but other Nd families often are attracted and are attractive to us so maybe we are Nd, tbh I don't really care and my kids can be tested if they want.
Mine are all functioning adults who just shrug at the idea cos we haven't made it a big deal, they can be who they are and are thriving.

Keroppi · Yesterday 23:55

She sounds totally normal, perhaps more anxious inclined than other children so you need to help her with being a good winner and loser, accepting defeat and building resilience (that "I am not good enough" she's saying)

Look up some activities and ideas on building resilience, have lots of fun play, model you being stroppy and losing and correcting yourself, point out in media good winners and good social graces

Don't overthink her, she's 5 and in clubs and reception, big changes and social things to navigate. I would also stop trying to make things too fun and interesting all the time otherwise she will struggle in year 1 when they get all serious and have to just sit and work compared to reception 🙈
So somethings are boring, dd, but they just have to be done, like hand washing, bc of the germs etc etc
But don't go on and on and on. It's not healthy to constantly be on nagging at your kids, over explaining, verbalising. Just say what needs to be done

Neuronimo · Today 00:05

I can see why you are thinking that there are some traits. The hair washing and nail cutting, were a big problem for myself and my son (both ND) at that age, but at 5 I should imagine a lot of children have some sensitivities.

With my Ds it was the extreme levels of discomfort that pointed towards autism. He was terrified of hand dryers, sensory seeking in the extreme around water/wet play etc and terrified of most foods.

When you say she is imaginative and yet controlling around play, does she have meltdowns and is she able to self calm easily? Does she like to play the same games in the same order over and over? I did have imaginative play, but preferred to play alone often, if children wouldn't follow my scripts.

UpDownAllAround1 · Today 00:35

i think more like a sensitive and intense parent

Birdsongisangry · Today 02:37

The behaviours you describe are all very typical for a five year old; by nature children at this age are egocentric (expecting to be the best, not wanting to share, wanting the focus to be on them) and asserting their independence (not wanting to change task, not wanting to do things you're asking them to do) and they're still learning how to deal with their emotions, ie being distraught over minor things. More so for an only child who is used to being the focus of attention at home.
Neurodivergence would only be considered if these things continued as she got older, and to an extent it disrupted daily life, eg always struggling with friendships and not learning to pick up on social cues or understand others might want something different to her, or a change of task causing upset that the rest of the day was written off.

happysinglemama · Today 02:43

Normal 5 year old

HowBloodyMuchforaniPhome · Today 02:51

OP if you want to help her, look into Carol Dweck’s work on growth mindset and especially look at ways you can foster a growth mindset in her eg by how you praise her and discuss her skills and achievements. Not to be confused with false growth mindset which is unhelpful. You can help her with the perfectionism, criticism, mistakes etc

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