To wonder on the future of generous welfare in the UK

[happybug1234]

It seems increasingly obvious that many middle-income families are becoming frustrated at how squeezed they are financially, while at the same time seeing people on universal credit receive a growing range of subsidies and support — £1 attraction tickets on days out, a 6% rise in benefits this financial year, childcare costs reclaimable through Universal Credit, housing benefit, and so on. I see thread after thread on this on this site and also increasing momentum in the media on this issue (income cliff edges etc)

In my own extended family, 1 unemployed parent with the other on min wage, in social housing appear to have more holidays and more disposable income than we do, despite us both working full time with a household income of around £95k. Once childcare, mortgage, insurances, commuting and tax are taken into account, we 100% have a lower level of disposable income than they do as they do not have any of these work related costs and their rent is paid. They have recently gone on a 2 week holiday whilst the most we can ever afford is 1 week.

Quite a few teachers in my friendship circle are declining promotion opportunities or TLR because the extra pay often doesn’t feel worth the additional stress once tax, pension contributions and childcare costs are factored in. Instead, some are putting more effort into private tutoring, which is tax free cash in hand.

What is stopping the government from addressing this as people seek to be responding accordingly in their behaviour!

The triple lock was brought in by Gordon Brown as it was widely acknowledged that the increases in pension hadn’t increased with inflation for some years. The design in the triple lock was specifically to increase the pension at a higher than normal rate for a few years in order to ‘catch up’ with inflation and then for the triple lock to be removed. I cannot emphasise enough that it was never designed to be anything but a temporary measure. And yet here we are with no politicians willing to put their name to being the person to end the policy and the pension increasing in a manner far higher than it was ever designed to with no end in sight. Sigh!

Some are, by the time a lot of working people pay for childcare they would be better off claiming benefits.

Can’t you be happy that a hard up family can have a day out? If both parents, or to be honest if one parent is unemployed or too sick to work, there can’t be much joy in family life. A bit of a mental break and some quality family time might be just what that family needs. If you have a job and your health, you are going to have opportunities that they don’t have.

Retirement Pensions: The maximum UK State Pension is relatively low compared to the cost of living. Research indicates the UK basic payout is worth significantly less as a percentage of average earnings than in countries like France or Germany.

This is one of those slippery statistics that needs closer examination.

Firstly, what is the justification for comparing the pension to average earnings, instead of e.g. the cost of living, the cost of housing, or the minimum wage?

Secondly, what is meant by 'average' earnings. If it is the mean, that will be badly skewed by stratospheric earnings in some sectors in London.
If it is the median, then it is a matter of policy as to where the state pension should sit, e.g. should it be at the lower quartile? At 20% of the median?

Thirdly, as a previous poster just pointed out, the combination of state and occupational pensions is handled very differently in different countries, so there is a serious danger of comparing apples and oranges.

They are not generous

Plenty get lots of money and only work part time

Who's going to pay for that?

The subsidies are paid by the company not the government. The attractions make much more money on the food and drink sold on site than in entry fees. It's an incentive to get more people through the gate and then the pester power of children means they spend a lot while on site.

It's called capitalism.

The politics of envy is not pretty. These people won't have pensions or housing security and often live precarious lives. They die young, get cancer more often and have poor health. Comparison is the thief of joy. I don't begrudge them cheap tickets one bit.

That is taken to pay for your care if/when needed !

I thought because you said ‘ for which I paid ££££ unlike not 50p like some older buyers’ meant you were slagging off boomers.

You are right to point out that whilst people can pay a fortune for their homes it doesn’t mean the value stays as is or indeed rises. Negative equity was a real issue during one recession. Many people assume that their property will hold or increase in value. Often it does. But it is not guaranteed.

And social care costs are extortionate. I would love to see how they break down and justify their costs. Staff will be on NMW topped up probably by the taxpayer. Food will be cheap. I fail to see how they charge thousands for one person every week. You could stay at a very posh hotel if only they would have you.

Surely if they upped the UC rate a little and reduced the all comers rate they’d get more people through the door. I never go to any of these things as a family because it’s just extortionate. But we’re not on UC.

There are a few things I think when I see posts like this:

If you are on £95k and consider yourself hard up you are doing something wrong.

You don't seem to understand the benefit and advantage you have by being able to pay off a mortgage.

Jealousy is such a childish emotion that makes people small and resentful.

Someone's done a very very good job of redirecting people's attention away from the billionaires who are actually bleeding the world dry, towards families going for a day out. That's quite an achievement but the fact that you have fallen for it makes you a total idiot.

My kids are excluded from these attractions because I can't pay 10-20 a ticket yet my friends who don't work and are on UC take their kids almost daily. How is that fair? And for those who think it's clever to say 'you quit working then' - who's going to pay for that if everyone does it?

A friend was complaining to me that it took the council 10 years to give her a 4 bed house. A privately bought 4 bedroom house costs millions, most will never afford it, and that's before repairs, council tax, etc all paid for. The system is really unfair.

Lifting the 2 cap is an insult to those who are responsible about the family size they have !

There are better ways to lift kids out of poverty!

Lifting the cap merely encourages people to have kids they can not afford !

I personally spent years working with children who live in poverty and as a member of a high tax paying household I really don’t have any issue at all with those children getting a day out for £1, even if that means I am subsidising them by paying a higher ticket price.

I hope you’re joking, imagine if everyone took that attitude

How can you claim if you’re on 40K?? Madness

Then who’d pay the tax?

Im not. My kids are more important.

I have no problem with universal credit supporting those who can’t work/are limited due to disability or illness, those temporarily out of work for a good reason or those working hard in low paying jobs that need a top up. I am not happy about supporting people who choose to not work/work limited hours when they are perfectly capable of working more.

If "they" upped the UC rate a little? You mean the government?

Having read many benefit bashing threads on MN. I doubt "they" would increase UC.
Moreover the entry fee is what the market will stand.

The price is elastic. In economic terms it means they will reduce the price if it means significantly fewer people will go to the theme parks. Right now the price may seem high to you but enough people pay that price for the theme parks to maintain that level.

An example of an inelastic price is petrol. Does matter what it costs, people will pay it. Watch the pump prices stay high once the oil price drops as they all rake in the cash.

so are mine which is why I work hard to support them

How do you think people who don't get benefits cope? They dont get anything extra...

I do support them. But i want to be present too as much as im able to.

Not everyone has workplace pensions, women in particular were often told it wasn't worth paying into and being in low paid jobs with intermittent employment due to childcare they didn't contribute or so little it is worth pretty much nothing, in the future you may have a point.

The benefit system was meant to be a safety net for people in temporary financial difficulties not a lifestyle choice. The fact there is even a debate about whether people are better off working or being on benefits indefinitely is pretty bizarre really, and shows there is something wildly wrong somewhere.