To wonder on the future of generous welfare in the UK

[happybug1234]

It seems increasingly obvious that many middle-income families are becoming frustrated at how squeezed they are financially, while at the same time seeing people on universal credit receive a growing range of subsidies and support — £1 attraction tickets on days out, a 6% rise in benefits this financial year, childcare costs reclaimable through Universal Credit, housing benefit, and so on. I see thread after thread on this on this site and also increasing momentum in the media on this issue (income cliff edges etc)

In my own extended family, 1 unemployed parent with the other on min wage, in social housing appear to have more holidays and more disposable income than we do, despite us both working full time with a household income of around £95k. Once childcare, mortgage, insurances, commuting and tax are taken into account, we 100% have a lower level of disposable income than they do as they do not have any of these work related costs and their rent is paid. They have recently gone on a 2 week holiday whilst the most we can ever afford is 1 week.

Quite a few teachers in my friendship circle are declining promotion opportunities or TLR because the extra pay often doesn’t feel worth the additional stress once tax, pension contributions and childcare costs are factored in. Instead, some are putting more effort into private tutoring, which is tax free cash in hand.

What is stopping the government from addressing this as people seek to be responding accordingly in their behaviour!

Agree with this. We need to incentivise people to go out and support their families by working, not claiming benefits.

Re the attractions tickets, it’s not the cost to the govt/organisations, it’s the perception of it. For a middle earner a family day out to The Tower of London + train + meals would be a serious ouch. In fact it’s a trip I could not justify doing; far, far too expensive.

£1 tickets to those on benefits sounds a nice thing to have, until you stop to think that it’s just another “perk” of not working which are all adding up to making schlepping to a job a mug’s game.

I know someone who has claimed benefits for 45 years and bought a house during that time.

But those top ups bring them up to the same standard of disposable income as middle class families. So what is the point of earning more money if you are going to be not better off in practice?

As ever: quit and claim then 🤷🏻‍♀️

100% This!

This! These threads are getting really old.

Houses cost less, but people got paid a lot less too !
And can I reassure that older people do not all live in properties that are worth a fortune. I have two siblings in social rentals.
There were recessions. People lost homes, businesses. Many were out of work for years. There is a wonderful song called Ghost Town by the Specials. Made in 1981. It will explain a little more about how life felt in many places for all those older people. When they were a bit younger.

Lots of people are. Lots of young people aren't even bothering to work in the first place to quit.

That’s such a tired cliche of a response. Can’t you address the issue instead? Don’t you think OP has a point? If not why not?

Private tutoring is not tax free cash in hand!

Perhaps - brace yourself - by paying higher wages. Enforce a higher minimum wage / living wage. Force employers to pay enough to actually live on.

Then we wouldn’t need to top up wages with UC.

I think a lot of people own properties overseas. Also subletting social housing. Dn rented a Peabody Trust flat in Shoreditch; the landlord collected the rent in cash and his name was on some of the bills.

So you want people on limited incomes to be excluded from these attractions because they can't afford them? Do you object to these companies offering concessions to pensioners because you aren't eligible?

I think the state pension was somehow made exempt from tax recently if that is your only income to stop the stupidity of giving with one hand and taking away with the other. Doesn't affect me because I have a small private pension so that puts me into tax anyway.

Yeah, but… you then employ fewer staff 🤷‍♀️

What needs to happen is the tax credits need to wither on the vine. Society functioned better without them. There was a time before they existed. Gordon Brown introduced them. Awful. They are the biggest employer pay subsidy invented.
But, in practice they keep people on modest jobs without the possibility of progression. They keep people all on the same sort of pay. Employer doesn’t care because the taxpayer picks up what they should be paying.
They need to slowly die out.

Our minimum wage is WAAAAYYY above the oECD average. Hugely higher than any other OECD country. Raising it further makes it not only harder for current businesses to retain workers but it also makes UK businesses far less internationally competitive. Is that what you want.

Low wages are an issue because housing is so expensive here. Labour acknowledge this with their pledge to build 1.5m houses, then undermine this with imposing endless ridiculous planning regulations on prospective builders which means they just give in and don’t bother. Make it easier to build, get house prices down and people won’t need to earn as much.

People on limited incomes are always excluded from these attractions. Do you think those earning just above the threshold for UC can access these attractions? Honestly! Unless you are going to offer £1 tickets to every family that can't afford the attractions then how is it fair to offer to only some?

I think the decision to spend on a visit should be as big as a decision by those on UC as those in work on average pay. Currently those on UC can afford it far more easily than those in work.

@Monty36 - very well acquainted with The Specials, thank you! RIP Terry. In fact I went on a trip to Coventry c.1981 and boy, was it depressed.

I wasn’t slagging off boomers, but making the point that not all homeowners have experienced huge gains in value, but are then classed as some sort of wealthy landowners à la Thd Duke of Westminster…

Yes they should access them on there means of being able to pay for the entry fee… just like everyone else is.

Or those employers push their prices up to cover the increase in minimum wage which pushes CoL up even further and nobody is better off

Another benefit bashing thread...

The country is fucked and we are all going to see a continued reduction in our standard of living.

Care homes for the elderly are going to be hit hard. Anyone currently of working age who thinks they should spend all their money now so the government doesnt take it because if they have no assets they'll get their care paid for is going to get a hell of a shock.

We'll see a shift towards the cheapest way possible to 'meet' care needs. Including simply denying there are any where possible.

Regardless who will get what in benefits, anyone who thinks there's any way they are going to be better off in the coming years is deluded.

But the government wants the population to focus on people on uc and on disabled people as the reason the country is fucked, because thats where the savings will be made (instead of closing tax loopholes, and looking at who's creaming off the top) and for that to work, those who will be affected must first be demonised.

We are already seeing it everywhere and its working. Turn on those with the least instead of those with the power. Working like a charm.