To wonder on the future of generous welfare in the UK

[happybug1234]

It seems increasingly obvious that many middle-income families are becoming frustrated at how squeezed they are financially, while at the same time seeing people on universal credit receive a growing range of subsidies and support — £1 attraction tickets on days out, a 6% rise in benefits this financial year, childcare costs reclaimable through Universal Credit, housing benefit, and so on. I see thread after thread on this on this site and also increasing momentum in the media on this issue (income cliff edges etc)

In my own extended family, 1 unemployed parent with the other on min wage, in social housing appear to have more holidays and more disposable income than we do, despite us both working full time with a household income of around £95k. Once childcare, mortgage, insurances, commuting and tax are taken into account, we 100% have a lower level of disposable income than they do as they do not have any of these work related costs and their rent is paid. They have recently gone on a 2 week holiday whilst the most we can ever afford is 1 week.

Quite a few teachers in my friendship circle are declining promotion opportunities or TLR because the extra pay often doesn’t feel worth the additional stress once tax, pension contributions and childcare costs are factored in. Instead, some are putting more effort into private tutoring, which is tax free cash in hand.

What is stopping the government from addressing this as people seek to be responding accordingly in their behaviour!

It’s not that people are thinking UC claimants are living the life of luxury but they resent them getting something they are not able to afford for their own children. People see UC claimants as getting enough top ups as it is without extra perks like this, it isn’t just one perk but part of a whole package, free school meals, HAF provision, energy discounts etc, this was always going to be the danger when governments decided to move away from universal benefits, e.g. no one resents the universal FSM for children until year 2 or children’s centres as everyone is entitled to use this. Obviously some support has to be targeted but people feel using UC is both too broad and too exclusionary a passport for all these extra perks

I think it sad that it is considered the norm now to dump your small kids in a nursery. You will never get those years back.

Disgraceful comment. Dinosaurs with attitudes like this, keep women at home and contribute to the gender pay gap. I am glad we have women who can work in their 20s/30s and become doctors, MPs, high ranking police officers, judges etc. If women stayed home during the career-building years, we would not have equality. If a woman has a few kids then you are saying you want them out of the workforce for ten plus years. How anti feminist and backwards.

@XenoBitch I think it sad that it is considered the norm now to dump your small kids in a nursery. You will never get those years back.

Can you please tell me what gives you personal experience to make such comments? Are you a mother? Do you work? Do you do anything for anyone other than yourself?

The lifting of the cap I feel is ridiculous. I am on a UC facebook page and someone yesterday posted their first statement since the lifting of the cap. they had six kids on the claim and between them they earned something like 3.6k a month and their new Uc payment was still over 1k. Then with six lots of child benefit on top as well you are looking at close to another £100 a week. bearing in mind this continues for years, how on earth are we affording it ? I don't think this family even had rent elmenebt on the claim.

i don’t think this benefit bashing critique is necessarily aimed at disabled folk!

it is mostly aimed at those claiming and imo, milking the system or using it as a lifestyle choice when they are otherwise fit and able to work and contribute to the economy.

That's where we're heading whether we like it or not imo. Then watch folks complain!

why the hell is someone having 6 kids while in receipt of benefits! Ludicrous

Because the government allows it and pays for it so why not

Is that honestly your view?

Private school costs on average 20k per year per child which is out of reach for someone on a low paid job, it would take up at least 2/3 of their income. It’s probably grandparents / family money funding it.

Out of interest, because people quoting high UC amounts paid to families are always shouted down on here, I inputted my family's details 10 years ago into a benefits calculator (my children are not children anymore, hence the time shift).
Both my children are autistic and I said neither myself not my husband worked and I was a carer for the 'disabled' children.
The amount it came out with was £5100 a month in various benefits. That's the equivalent of a £62,100 salary after tax.
I was open-mouthed. 10 years ago - with the same circumstances apart from we both DID work - out household income was £55,000.
We paid tax, paid out mortgage and paid full whack on everything (obvs).
Yet people bringing in more than us would be entitled to £1 entry tickets, subsidised school trips and all the other bits UC claimants can get.
It's an absolute disgrace.
A blanket UC claimant qualification should not be key to anything - it should depend on household income, regardless of where that income comes from. And all - all - income over the threshold should be taxed.

This was in the 80's- school fees have soared since then, also"private schools" are not created equal, there is a huge variation in fees.
My next door neighbour is from Southern India, and they used to go on holiday to relatives in India and the US most years- also something we could not afford.
Subsidised housing, particulary in London transforms your finances, and has for decades.

A communist state is designed to eliminate private property and class through one party rule (with the ruling party being the revolutionary 'working class')...so it's really not accurate to describe welfare benefits or a society that believes in them as communist. Democratic socialism is probably slightly more accurate.

It's easy to resent those who have things we do not, but drumming up resentment in this way is a common divide and conquer technique of governments.

Personally, I don't get the resentment argument, but I understand that's a very personal view. We were extremely poor growing up; yet I don't resent that all primary school children in London state schools now receive free school meals instead of rummaging through bins for food. (If you wish to stick to UC "perks", then parents must earn less than £7,400 per year for their children to be eligible for free school meals.) In terms of the other "perks" you mention in your later post, not all UC claimants are eligible for all perks, or receive them, even if they are eligible. As need grows, eligibility requirements become tougher to meet. In 1 year, I was eligible for a winter fuel discount. Despite nothing financially changing for me the next year, no discount was available. Do I begrudge those who must be in an even worse financial position being able to get the discount? No.

Nobody on here as said they resent any disabled person from getting benefits. In fact the opposite has been said several times. It is people who CAN work and who are choosing to claim benefits instead to fund this lifestyle that are the issue. They are the people we resent and so should you, they are the reason disabled people and benefits in general get such a bad press. So many shameful comments on here such as hate the game not the player and openly encouraging people to advantage of the system that was created to help people like you, who actually need it.

And I know at least two families whose partner works full time and they still claim their free school meals.

It sounds like you think this is a bad thing? Do you know what the partner's annual salary is and what their financial situation was in 2018? Because children eligible for free school meals in 2018 will retain the benefit, even if their parents' income increases, until 2025/2026. Many schools encourage parents to claim, as the school receives a pupil premium for every child eligible for FSM. The pupil premium doesn't have to be spent on an individual child, but goes into the general school budget.

Well why would you have 6 children if you can't afford to feed them? If there was no benefits people would think twice before having that many, i understand one could be an accident but not 6

but then the govt wants people to have more, so overall its the system

But as my post above shows, it's possible to have a lower income with two workers than a family on UC.
Blanket benefits for those on US need to stop - it should be based on household income, not an automatic right if you claim UC.

Yes I think it’s a bad thing when their household income is now more than mine but they get free school meals yet I have to pay. How can you think this is right?

Agreed, That's why universal UC benefits need to stop (although I don't think UC automatically entitles you to FSM, does it?)

The number of retired people is increasing, a large number of higher rate of tax payers will probably retire in the next 10-20 years, current middle earners are clearly dropping their hours/doing less overtime to avoid high levels of tax. Over a million healthy young people aren't working and others that want to work, may look at student debt and think 'nah, that's not for me' so less professionals to pay high amounts of tax. Where is the money going to come from?

No but apparently if you were entitled to FSM in 2018 you get to keep them even when youre income has increase and earn way more than the threshold. Absolutely disgusting.

So? Clearly many people think there is plenty to bash.

When I was young it was people’s dream to get out of council housing and own their own home. Now a council/social housing property is the holy grail as it affords a lifetime of affordable -or indeed no - rent and no fear of losing the roof over your head.

Build more council houses! people bellow. But is this a solution? If someone has six children, all of those children will want a council property and so on. They will see that “doing the right thing” leads to being no better off or indeed maybe being worse off than living off the state.

Likewise those with very dubious health conditions. NOT the disabilities some on this thread have talked about, but those - I was just looking at just such a person on Instagram - with the catch-all of anxiety which only seems to strike when a day’s work is required.