Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Angela Raynor still doesnt get it.

512 replies

ThisDandyWriter · 11/05/2026 08:08

I’ve just read Angela’s Raynor’s statement about why Labour did so badly and what they need to do to change….aibu to think SHE STILL DOESNT GET IT!! Nothing mentioned about welfare, nothing mentioned about immigration-these are 2 subjects most talked about as the reasons why people didn’t vote for Labour.
she might not like it-but id they want to stay in power, they MUST tackle these subjects and not just ignore them because they dint fit her narrative.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
EasternStandard · 11/05/2026 10:40

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:36

This. What happened to KS and his "We will smash the gangs" narrative.

It went the same way as the one in one out game changer narrative.

Anyahyacinth · 11/05/2026 10:40

So you don’t believe in principled politicians just greedy people who go where the wind blows?? Right, right 🤦‍♀️

The issues you raised are irrelevant in relation to the challenges we face…they are a distraction…from massive wealth extraction, the climate emergency and our crumbling state services…unless you want to fix the problem with huge rises in unexpected deaths and illnesses?

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:41

Plugg · 11/05/2026 10:38

Keir could have put immigration to bed once and for all by following the lead of the Danish socialists who introduced strict rules to limit immigration to those who could best pay back into Danish society. They launched this with the chat that they were doing so to protect Danish public services for Danish citizens. Who could argue against that?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2lknr2d3go

A black dinghy with a red stripe around it, on a grey sea and grey sky. There are lots of people, mainly men, on the dinghy wearing fluorescent life jackets.

UK seeks inspiration from Denmark to shake up immigration system

Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is taking cues from some of the toughest migration laws in Europe.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2lknr2d3go

MustTryHarderAndHarder · 11/05/2026 10:42

Lilactimes · 11/05/2026 09:58

Thank you @Philgooglemail for this thorough post. This is why I am scared of Reform.

You should be more worried about Labour and the Greens who are pushing people to Reform because they are ignoring them.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 11/05/2026 10:48

Thefastandthecurious5 · 11/05/2026 10:06

Visa and asylum fraud is not widespread. My mother used to work in visa and asylum policy, and she is at pains to say how uncommon it is.

Yes, the small boat arrivals of people are very visible, but they are not very frequent. A lot of money is spent on accommodating asylum seekers, but most of that money goes to the accommodation providers and only a tiny portion to the asylum seekers themselves (£9.95 a week for those in full board accom or £49 a week for those not in full board accom).

Electoral fraud by ‘people with anti-Western views seeking to subvert our democracy’ is a constant threat, as shown by Russia’s increasing attempts to influence our elections, but it’s very well managed.

I’ve not yet seen any reports of terrorist or criminal fugitives entering the U.K. illegally. Most of them are removed successfully. I’ve not come across any evidence of lawyers successfully arguing for their right to stay in the U.K.

As for murders and raped committed by foreign nationals, these happen but they’re rare, and most of the time, the people committing them are here legally. I’ve never heard of a gang rape being committed in the U.K. by a foreign national. If you’re referring to gang rapes committed by grooming gangs, these are extremely rare, and the men committing them were British nationals.

My mother used to work in visa and asylum policy, and she is at pains to say how uncommon it is.

How many years ago did your mother work in visa and asylum policy? Surely working on ‘policy’ is not the same as being on the ground uncovering fraud? And things are looking very different now to even 5 years years ago so unless your mum has worked in visa fraud this year, I’m not sure her view is quite relevant.

As for murders and raped committed by foreign nationals, these happen but they’re rare, and most of the time, the people committing them are here legally. I’ve never heard of a gang rape being committed in the U.K. by a foreign national.

You may not be paying much attention to recent news. Off the top of my head I can think of two gang rapes in Bristol, one in Brighton, Leamington Spa in a short timescale.

If you’re referring to gang rapes committed by grooming gangs, these are extremely rare, and the men committing them were British nationals.

No these are not ‘extremely rare’, there are an estimated tens of thousands, likely hundreds of thousands of victims repeatedly raped and abused over years in approx 80 UK towns and cities. And the fact that these men have been given British citizenship does not negate the fact that they are racist and have anti- western ideals.

I’ve not yet seen any reports of terrorist or criminal fugitives entering the U.K. illegally.

Most of the gang rapists I have mentioned came in on the asylum route. The asylum seeker who raped a woman in Hyde Park is a terrorist, I can’t find the article but there were other failed asylum seekers on the run from crimes they committed in Europe who came here on small boats. Just google ‘asylum seeker rape’ and eee hoe many heartbreaking and totally avoidable cases there are where women and girls have had their lives changed forever (or ended) by these men.

Electoral fraud by ‘people with anti-Western views seeking to subvert our democracy’ is a constant threat, as shown by Russia’s increasing attempts to influence our elections, but it’s very well managed.

How is it being well managed if many in power won’t even admit that it’s happening? It’s not just Russia. They seem unbothered that potentially large numbers of Muslims are losing their right to a democratic vote and that postal voting is being abused.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gv24w9vr8o?app-referrer=deep-link

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg090pe65vo?app-referrer=deep-link

https://www.cps.gov.uk/west-midlands/news/two-teenagers-sentenced-rape-leamington-spa

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g4x2zyer2o?app-referrer=deep-link (Raped a 12 yr old not gang rape though)

Three pictures of men's faces up close. They all have brown eyes.

Three men guilty of 'callous' Brighton beach rape

The men, who are all asylum seekers, had denied targeting the woman in the early hours of October 4.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg090pe65vo?app-referrer=deep-link

ThisDandyWriter · 11/05/2026 10:48

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:39

Do you really truly expect Labour to stop the folk on a boat in 2 years when nobody else has managed to even make a dent? While trying to undo the damage in the UK left by the cons and facing wars? OK.

If it were that easy, would've been done a long time ago.

So he shouldn’t have said he would then, should he?

he also said that the vat raised from school fees would find more teachers and that taxes wouldn’t rise.

he lied to get in to power.

OP posts:
ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:49

Plugg · 11/05/2026 10:38

Keir could have put immigration to bed once and for all by following the lead of the Danish socialists who introduced strict rules to limit immigration to those who could best pay back into Danish society. They launched this with the chat that they were doing so to protect Danish public services for Danish citizens. Who could argue against that?

I have a friend that lives in DK (Brit married to a Dane)

She went to her GP and had carpal tunnel syndrome diagnosed (tentatively) on a Monday. On the Wednesday she got the electrical stimulation diagnostic test and on the Friday she had a call and was offered the surgery the following Tuesday. She has put the surgery off to the start of June for her own reasons.

Last year she found a breast lump and was seen the following day. Two days later she had a mammogram and needle biopsy and had a call the same day to say it was a fluid filled cyst that she could leave or have removed. She arranged to have it removed and this happened three weeks later.

The Danes are doing something right.

Clubbiscuit · 11/05/2026 10:51

ThisDandyWriter · 11/05/2026 08:26

Net immigration is probably down partly to the higher rate tax payers who have fled the country 😂

This is proven to be a fallacy. Are you a Daily Mail reader by any chance?

TorroFerney · 11/05/2026 10:52

ilovesooty · 11/05/2026 08:24

You believe that. I don't.

But it is. Go on facebook and it’s all about hostels for illegals immigrants. I live in a really nice , middle class affluent area. Pub in the village has a load of spare land (which is sometimes used by a chap to land his helicopter). They were doing some work on it , gets reported in the local Facebook page and the number of, they are turning this (packed all the time gastro pub) pub into a hostel for immigrant posts were amazing.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 11/05/2026 10:52

Flowersdie · 11/05/2026 10:14

This made me giggle. Did you demand to see the pickpockets legal papers to determine he was an illegal immigrant?

The point of pickpockets tends to be that they secretly pick your pocket not engage in discussion with you. Things that never happened.

You’re a charmer - first calling us all racists for no reason then laughing at pp being pickpocketed. You just keep telling yourself that you’re nice.

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:52

ThisDandyWriter · 11/05/2026 10:48

So he shouldn’t have said he would then, should he?

he also said that the vat raised from school fees would find more teachers and that taxes wouldn’t rise.

he lied to get in to power.

Urm, did he say he would smash the gangs in a week of being in power? 2 weeks? A month? Did he give a timescale? Or are you just wanting instant gratification, tiktok style?

Lol over lies to get into power. That's every party, every manifesto. I do hope you're as scathing and unreasonable when Reforms promises turn out to be lies.

Firetreev · 11/05/2026 10:52

ThisDandyWriter · 11/05/2026 09:38

Link?

It was Clive Lewis on the BBC who stated this.

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:53

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:39

Do you really truly expect Labour to stop the folk on a boat in 2 years when nobody else has managed to even make a dent? While trying to undo the damage in the UK left by the cons and facing wars? OK.

If it were that easy, would've been done a long time ago.

No, I don't. Like so much in this over legislated country, it is probably un-solveable but KS lying about it is on a par with Boris Johnson lying, lying and lying some more.

Worse, he must know that he has no power outside of the UK to smash gangs or do anything else but that doesn't stop him running his mouth. It's embarrassing.

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:54

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:49

I have a friend that lives in DK (Brit married to a Dane)

She went to her GP and had carpal tunnel syndrome diagnosed (tentatively) on a Monday. On the Wednesday she got the electrical stimulation diagnostic test and on the Friday she had a call and was offered the surgery the following Tuesday. She has put the surgery off to the start of June for her own reasons.

Last year she found a breast lump and was seen the following day. Two days later she had a mammogram and needle biopsy and had a call the same day to say it was a fluid filled cyst that she could leave or have removed. She arranged to have it removed and this happened three weeks later.

The Danes are doing something right.

The Danes pay more tax! Something the UK people are not wanting.

BananaPeels · 11/05/2026 10:55

Seniie · 11/05/2026 10:30

You can't just create your own definition. You're conflating "fascism" and "authoritarianism". Fascism is far right authoritarianism, communism is far left authoritarianism. Reform are hard right and trying to emulate the MAGA trump regime. They are fascists (although currently trying hard to pretend they are not).

I am not actually a labour voter. I'm centrist in my views. I've only ever voted conservative or lib dem. But the prospect of reform getting in is terrifying to most normal and sensible people in the UK. Labour are making a mistake if they think moving further left will help. People want welfare reform, they want a tougher approach to illegal immigration and they want a sensible and fair approach to taxation. It's what most reform voters say they want but its also what most centrist voters want (done in a sensible and controlled way).

Not all reform voters are racist. But most racists vote reform.

Edited

Those definitions do not fit modern day society in the slightest. That’s my point. Throwing about these definitions as a way of trying to shame people into not voting how they choose is authoritarian and quite frankly bullying. No one is communist, no one is fascist, very few are racist. Reform are just slightly further right than the Tories. In fact they align more with the Tories on the 1970s and no one was branding about far right Fascist labels in those days. It has to stop.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 10:56

ThisDandyWriter · 11/05/2026 10:48

So he shouldn’t have said he would then, should he?

he also said that the vat raised from school fees would find more teachers and that taxes wouldn’t rise.

he lied to get in to power.

Everyone does. The manifestos rarely bear much resemblance to reality. This is partly because parties/leaders don't really know what they're dealing with until they actually come into power though.

Farage is also lying through his yellow smoker's teeth about what Reform would achieve if they got into power.

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:57

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:53

No, I don't. Like so much in this over legislated country, it is probably un-solveable but KS lying about it is on a par with Boris Johnson lying, lying and lying some more.

Worse, he must know that he has no power outside of the UK to smash gangs or do anything else but that doesn't stop him running his mouth. It's embarrassing.

Really? Because Starmer has made changes, chipping away at asylum rules and immigration rules, all designed to make the UK less appealing.

There is no simple solution to asylum seekers, you must have the smarts to realise this. It's quite silly to think that anyone can solve this instantly, embarrassing even.

EasternStandard · 11/05/2026 10:57

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:53

No, I don't. Like so much in this over legislated country, it is probably un-solveable but KS lying about it is on a par with Boris Johnson lying, lying and lying some more.

Worse, he must know that he has no power outside of the UK to smash gangs or do anything else but that doesn't stop him running his mouth. It's embarrassing.

Yeh he got that wrong. How can you remove all gangs, take one person out another takes their place, impossible.

Plugg · 11/05/2026 10:57

ShizeItsWeegie · 11/05/2026 10:49

I have a friend that lives in DK (Brit married to a Dane)

She went to her GP and had carpal tunnel syndrome diagnosed (tentatively) on a Monday. On the Wednesday she got the electrical stimulation diagnostic test and on the Friday she had a call and was offered the surgery the following Tuesday. She has put the surgery off to the start of June for her own reasons.

Last year she found a breast lump and was seen the following day. Two days later she had a mammogram and needle biopsy and had a call the same day to say it was a fluid filled cyst that she could leave or have removed. She arranged to have it removed and this happened three weeks later.

The Danes are doing something right.

Indeed. Nordic society values work. People do all and any work they possibly can to ensure the boost the national tax take and improve public services for all. There’s little ‘oh I’m a bit depressed, I need cash to lie in bed all day’ etc. which is why we’ll struggle ever to have good public services like this here. And they also have an insurance based funding model for healthcare which people here think is appalling. Appalling, getting care in days not years! Terrible!

Blondiebeachbabe · 11/05/2026 10:57

She should have been sacked after the tax avoidance. Scandalous that she's creeping back in.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 11/05/2026 10:58

thepariscrimefiles · 11/05/2026 10:19

Reform probably would reduce illegal immigration as they have no respect for UK and international law so would employ methods that other parties would consider illegal and inhumane. They would have no qualms about sinking small boats and dinghies and letting people drown and shooting migrants so it probably would act as a strong deterrant. I'm sure that there are loads of Reform voters that would sign up for doing that.

They'd be utterly shit at everything else related to running a country though.

They would have no qualms about sinking small boats and dinghies and letting people drown and shooting migrants so it probably would act as a strong deterrant. I'm sure that there are loads of Reform voters that would sign up for doing that.

Thats a very serious and potentially defamatory accusation. I hope you have some evidence that the Reform leadership has said that.

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:58

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 10:56

Everyone does. The manifestos rarely bear much resemblance to reality. This is partly because parties/leaders don't really know what they're dealing with until they actually come into power though.

Farage is also lying through his yellow smoker's teeth about what Reform would achieve if they got into power.

And Farage is going to ruin the rights, freedoms of the UK people while he's at it, all under the guise of immigration - oh, and of course the NHS! Yay, I can hardly wait.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 11/05/2026 10:59

BananaPeels · 11/05/2026 10:55

Those definitions do not fit modern day society in the slightest. That’s my point. Throwing about these definitions as a way of trying to shame people into not voting how they choose is authoritarian and quite frankly bullying. No one is communist, no one is fascist, very few are racist. Reform are just slightly further right than the Tories. In fact they align more with the Tories on the 1970s and no one was branding about far right Fascist labels in those days. It has to stop.

Edited

Well no because in the 70s it was normal to be openly racist. There were signs on pub doors saying 'no blacks, no Irish.' Times have changed in that sense - for the better. We call out racism now and we didn't back then. And people SHOULD be shamed for being racist, it's shameful.

Plugg · 11/05/2026 10:59

Happyjoe · 11/05/2026 10:54

The Danes pay more tax! Something the UK people are not wanting.

The higher rate taxes in Denmark are much the same as here. It’s the basic rate of tax that needs to go up from 20-30% and then the nil rate personal allowance needs to be reduced. Thats how we get to Scandinavian rates of tax.

StandFirm · 11/05/2026 10:59

Philgooglemail · 11/05/2026 09:43

The rose of reform is terrifying. The county I love is in the process of turning into a very nasty divided place. Influenced by such biased reporting like the Mail and GB News.

Read this article and worry.

Meanwhile. Written by someone called Claudia Karl:
🇩🇪 Speaking as a German.
I grew up in a country where every history lesson, every memorial, every awkward family dinner eventually circles back to the same uncomfortable question: how did ordinary, decent people let it happen? How did a respectable European democracy slide, in barely a decade, into something that ended with six million Jewish lives extinguished, millions of others murdered alongside them, and a continent in ruins?
The answers are never simple. But the rhetoric — the rhetoric was never subtle. And it is the rhetoric I want to talk about, because I have heard this song before. 🚩
A certain Austrian gentleman (you know the one) and his party told their country a very specific story. Listen now to what is coming out of Reform UK and Nigel Farage. Not the policies. Not the personalities. Just the language.

  1. "The country is broken. The country has lost itself."
Hitler, in his first radio address as Chancellor on 1 February 1933, told Germans they had been blinded by promises, had forgotten the highest values of their past, and — his exact words — that "the misery of our people is terrible". (Source: Facing History archive, Hitler's first radio address) Facing History Nigel Farage on Twitter, December 2022: "Britain is broken." In Blackpool, June 2024, he expanded: nothing works any more, the country is in cultural decline, "we've begun to forget who we are". (Source: ITN/Reuters reporting of Farage's Blackpool speech) Xonenewspage Same key. Different decade. ⸻
  1. "We are being invaded by foreigners."
Hitler, addressing the Reichstag in January 1939, declared "Germany to the Germans" and said the nation must prevent the settlement on its soil of a strange people. (Source: Yad Vashem, transcript of Hitler's Reichstag speech, 30 January 1939) Yad Vashem Reform UK, August 2025, Oxford Airport: Farage said Britain was undergoing "an invasion" and described asylum seekers as a national security threat. April 2026, Reform's own home affairs spokesman Zia Yusuf: a Reform government will "reverse the invasion of Britain". (Source: World Socialist Web Site reporting Farage's Oxford Airport speech; GB News on Reform's deportation plan) World Socialist Web SiteGB News Same key. Different decade. ⸻
  1. "The establishment has betrayed you."
Hitler, at his 1924 trial, called the surrender of 1918 "a stab in the back of the German nation" — Germany, he said, had not really lost; the army had been betrayed by Jews, leftists and the Weimar elites. This single myth, repeated and repeated, did more than perhaps any other to bring him to power. (Source: Alpha History, transcript of Hitler's 1924 trial speech) Alpha History Farage, August 2025, on the grooming gangs scandal: "The establishment has failed". The drumbeat is constant: ordinary Britons have been sold out by Westminster, by the courts, by the police, by an entire metropolitan class. (Source: Wikipedia, "Political positions of Nigel Farage") Wikipedia Same key. Different decade. ⸻
  1. "The country must awaken. We are taking it back."
Hitler at the Berlin Sportspalast, addressing the SA and SS: "Germany has now awakened". The nation, he told them, was the master of its own destiny again. (Source: USHMM Holocaust Encyclopedia film archive) Holocaust Encyclopedia Farage at the Reform conference, 2024 — his line which has since been painted across every Reform rally and bus: "Britain is broken... Britain needs reform". Take our country back. (Source: The Spectator's report on Farage's Reform conference speech) spectator Same key. Different decade. ⸻ I am not saying these men are the same. I am not saying Reform UK is the NSDAP. I am saying — and I cannot be quiet about this, because my country knows what comes next — the speeches are written in the same key. And we know how that key ends. 🇩🇪 Germans know it in our bones. We have spent eighty years apologising. Every schoolchild visits a camp. Every family, sooner or later, has the conversation. Every public building has a plaque. There is no statute of limitations on what our grandparents allowed, and there will not be one in eighty years' time either. So I have to ask, neighbour to neighbour: Have we really learned nothing? 😞 Do British voters truly want to spend the next eighty years apologising the way Germany has had to? Because that is the road. It always starts politely. It starts with "just asking questions" and "concerns about immigration" and a respectable suit and a friendly smile. It never announces itself with jackboots. By the time it does, it is too late. It is much, much easier to say no to this rhetoric now — while it still wears the suit and the smile — than to spend a lifetime explaining it to your grandchildren. 🇩🇪🇬🇧

Yes. And Farage is educated enough to know exactly what he is saying and how he's saying it. This is not a coincidence. The rhetoric overlaps for a reason.

Swipe left for the next trending thread