Angela Raynor still doesnt get it.

[ThisDandyWriter]

I’ve just read Angela’s Raynor’s statement about why Labour did so badly and what they need to do to change….aibu to think SHE STILL DOESNT GET IT!! Nothing mentioned about welfare, nothing mentioned about immigration-these are 2 subjects most talked about as the reasons why people didn’t vote for Labour.
she might not like it-but id they want to stay in power, they MUST tackle these subjects and not just ignore them because they dint fit her narrative.

If someone is claiming they are gay when they are not, or pretending to convert to Christianity when they are not, and they do this to stay here when they would otherwise not be entitled, then yes, they are abusing the system.

He nicked my phone which caused me a huge amount of grief, plus all the other stuff he nicked off other people so I literally give no fucks if he feels dehumanised because I refer to him as an illegal rather than someone who came here illegally.

They are not prisons. This is a matter of fact not of opinion.

What is a place where the government detains people against their will called except a prison? You can call it a detention centre but it's still a prison.

I’m sorry but if I am fleeing war and persecution and the country I flee to tells me, in return for giving me asylum, that I have to stay full bed and board in a facility for a month or so whilst they process my claim - id say absolutely no problem. Completely understandable in the circumstances. I’d just be very relieved and grateful to be given the opportunity quite frankly.

You look at how she is portrayed in the media. Do you think the media, in particular, certain sources of media are impartial and objective?

The thread is about her not listening and lots of people are throwing out the usual insults about her so I am drawing valid comparisons. I am sure Farage could have been photographed in the media in lots of uncompromising positions but he hasn’t been. He is a man of the people when he is photographed with his pint and cigarette. Rayner, because of her background (and a woman), is uncouth and uneducated.

You are wrong! Under your (wrong) definition then mental health units would also be defined as prisons when that is clearly nonsense.

Prisons have to contain people that have been convicted of a crime by definition. Detention Centres are basically processing centres. The profile of the type of people on each centre will be completely different.

They are LISTENING

They have made as many changes as they can in a short space of time to tackle this without breaking the law and within financial common sense.

It would of course help if, as a majority, the general public

1. Knew what illegal immigration actual was
2. Understood that the ludicrous Brexit has made it incredibly difficult to prevent small boats crossing as France has no need to work with us

Just because a bunch of ill informed shouty , racist bigots keep repeating ' Stop The Boats' , it doesn't mean that they will be any better equipped to solve the issue.

As for Welfare cuts, what people really mean is punish the poor and the sick because, hey, we are OK, why should we pay for other people?.

Sorry - I’d not come across that. I’ve now looked it up. I’ve not yet come across any other gang rapes though.

Yes, it's not one I came up with, I was responding to someone saying how much better Denmark NHS was etc.

I am not trying to be dishonest at all, and I sincerely apologise for appearing dishonest or unclear in how I expressed myself in my earlier post.

I think I have a very clear understanding of what the Nazis did, from having studied it at school and university

But when I first read about the Home Office’s plans to get rid of asylum seekers’ jewellery, my immediate thoughts went to the Nazis’ policies of confiscating Jewish people’s jewellery, artwork, houses, teeth and anything else valuable they had (as you write).

Yes, I realise the HO policy and the Nazi policies are VERY different in terms of their aims.

But the optics of this HO policy are really poorly designed and clumsy, and have really unpleasant echoes of the Nazis’ policy. It was the reference to jewellery and valuables that sparked the comparison for me.

Instead of welcoming people who have fled persecution or been displaced, we’re seizing their assets? It sounds very degrading and undignified.

I’m really concerned that no one at the HO seemed to consider these optics, and how the policy would come across, before Shabana Mahmood talked about it publicly.

Did anyone else here not see a parallel between these policies and the Nazis’ policies?

The working class have been deserting Labour in droves ever since 2010 when Brown called Mrs Duffy a bigot when she raised such concerns. Nowadays only Islington intellectual types and welfare claimants support Labour.

Labours pro-immigration stance resulted in the working classes wages being undercut, housing given to others as the priority, banged up in jail if they dare to speak out, new laws to ensure they do not speka oiut etc.

It's too late for Labour to get the working class vote now, they have long gone to Reform (created by Labour and the Tories to fill a void).

This.
100%
Perhaps if they were kept for 'processing' there would be fewer rapes and sexual assaults.
And whilst they at it perhaps educating these invaders that raping and sexual assault isnt tolerated ... that way they can't claim they 'didnt know' it was wrong 😡

People will always blame immigrants for their woes, nothing new under the sun.

That's why parties like the BNP, UKIP and now Reform/Restore exist.

The fact you made that link suggests more about you than the policy itself. It's clear that there are fundamental differences that make the policies completely different, both in terms of motivation and implementation. Trying to draw parallels is at best ill informed and at worst attempting to whip up hysteria by hijacking a genuine human atrocity to make completely unfounded comparisons.

No it’s immigration as a whole. Illegal immigration is just the “Poster boy” for all immigration.
We need to seriously think about what sort of country we want to live in because at present levels of immigration our country is changing beyond all recognition.
Some people might not think this is a problem but they need to be honest and acknowledge it as a fact nonetheless.

Labour had their own soundbite ‘smash the gangs’ at GE, which some bought in to.

The part about France isn’t correct either.

I don't think any new government could deal with it effectively either - especially not in a year or so, as people seem to expect.

We are drowning in debt and in very uncertain times.

We don't have the money to set up a new service to process the enormous backlog of assylum claims quickly and France are not going to bare the expense of Policing their shores to stop the boats coming. Our hands are tied legally when they arrive.

Do I think Starmer is an effective, communicative leader? No. BUT I don't think any of them would be able to turn it around in a 4 year term either AND I'm glad he's standing up to Trump & Netanyahu, whereas Farage and co would roll right over!

I’m not the first person to have made that link - Zack Polanski (who is Jewish) also made it, as he said this:

"Nazi history and my own family's perilous journey is not something I evoke lightly. To many communities who have been displaced or have fled persecution, the Labour government's statements will have had a chilling effect."

I have explained in my post above that I realise there are very clear and fundamental differences in the two policies.

The thing I find noteworthy - and wanted to check if others also did - is the optics of the HO policy, which ZP also picked upon.

I am not trying to whip up hysteria, and I am a Labour supporter and also have Jewish friends and colleagues.

If anyone is interested, break down of asylum seeker information.
Can see that Labour are trying but the whole system is broken. I can't see how suddenly Reform is the answer.

https://freemovement.org.uk/briefing-the-sorry-state-of-the-uk-asylum-system/#Increase_in_refusals_backlog_clearance

I told you about them upthread. Just try searching on the internet and see how long the list of rapes, gang rapes and murders by asylum seekers/immigrants is.

You appear to be very selective on the information you absorb while being happy to lie and misrepresent to suit your agenda.

my immediate thoughts went to the Nazis’ policies of confiscating Jewish people’s jewellery, artwork, houses, teeth and anything else valuable they had (as you write).
Yes, I realise the HO policy and the Nazi policies are VERY different in terms of their aims.

So you read on and understood that was not the proposal but still decided to present it as a parallel to the Nazis regardless. You didn’t include the full context of the proposal to acknowledge the completely different aims, you just presented it as if Shabana was behaving like the Nazis - no mention of ‘optics’ or potential for misinterpretation by the rider public.

If your point was about the optics that you (and some on the left if the party saw) but the rest of us didn’t - you could have said that.

As it was you sought to draw a direct parallel which in my mind is hugely dishonest.

Your previous assertion:
How is it minimising Nazi policies?
And which other countries have said anything - like Shabana Mahmood has - about confiscating asylum seekers’ jewellery when they come to the U.K. (which is horribly similar to the Nazis confiscating the jewellery and money of Jewish people when they were deported to concentration camps)?

Did anyone else here not see a parallel between these policies and the Nazis’ policies?

No. That seems to be an affliction of the left who have a serious aversion to any mention of immigration control, desire to limit numbers or make us less attractive as a destination so that people are less incentivised to travel across a safe continent and get on a small boat in order to get here to this tiny but extremely generous island.

Instead of welcoming people who have fled persecution or been displaced, we’re seizing their assets? It sounds very degrading and undignified.

We can’t afford our current benefits bill and the NHS can’t cope with demand - why do you think that people wanting to live here shouldn’t contribute financially?

I can’t see a mention from you of the Brighton gang rape upthread. This is the first I have heard of the Brighton gang rape, and I can’t find any other gang rape cases in the UK news.

I did say this about murders and rapes committed by foreign nationals:

As for murders and raped committed by foreign nationals, these happen but they’re rare, and most of the time, the people committing them are here legally.

I am not selective about the information I absorb, and I do not have the time or money to read everything in the media. Equally, I’m not lying or misrepresenting to suit my agenda. If this is in reference to my point about Shabana Mahmood’s policies, I stand by what I said.

I have now made it very clear that my opinion is about the optics of Shabana Mahmood’s policy and I have apologised for being unclear in my previous posts about the policy.

People living here should contribute financially, of course. However, asylum seekers can’t currently work so cannot contribute financially. I think allowing them to work - and thus contribute finanxially - is a much fairer, more dignified policy than taking away their valuables and using that to pay for their expenses. Asylum seekers are not the people causing the benefits bill unaffordability or NHS demand issues, so why suggest that is the case?

@Mangelwurzelfortea many labour MPs supported Brexit.

The wonderful lord frank field , old Mp for Birkenhead supported it because he saw his poorest of the poor constituents further affected in every way by the huge volume of esteem European immigrants who came when Blair changed the workers rights barriers.

• the definition of asylum seeker needs to be changed also ,it's out dated