Angela Raynor still doesnt get it.

[ThisDandyWriter]

I’ve just read Angela’s Raynor’s statement about why Labour did so badly and what they need to do to change….aibu to think SHE STILL DOESNT GET IT!! Nothing mentioned about welfare, nothing mentioned about immigration-these are 2 subjects most talked about as the reasons why people didn’t vote for Labour.
she might not like it-but id they want to stay in power, they MUST tackle these subjects and not just ignore them because they dint fit her narrative.

Reform has stated that if they come to power they will build detention camps/centres only in areas that have Green MPs or councils. What is that other than telling people who do not support them that they are going to be singled out for negative treatment. It won't happen of course, the costs which have been estimated at £12 billion will make sure of that let alone the logisitics of planning permission.Will these camps/centres size be proportinate to the Green majority, a narrow one gets a small centre but a large one gets one the size of a jail. Of course none of this has been indicated because it will never happen
But it is the politics of threat and punishment, vote for us otherwise we will do things to you that you may not like.

Reform has stated that if they come to power they will build detention camps/centres only in areas that have Green MPs or councils. What is that other than telling people who do not support them that they are going to be singled out for negative treatment. It won't happen of course, the costs which have been estimated at £12 billion will make sure of that let alone the logisitics of planning permission.Will these camps/centres size be proportinate to the Green majority, a narrow one gets a small centre but a large one gets one the size of a jail. Of course none of this has been indicated because it will never happen
But it is the politics of threat and punishment, vote for us otherwise we will do things to you that you may not like.

What they are saying is if you vote for a party who has an open border policy then surely you should be happy to have the results of that policy i.e. housing for undocumented illegal migrants to be in your constituency. It will never happen anyway but it would be interesting to see if all the middle class socialists who think an open border policy is a good idea would be happy to have all these migrants housed where they live rather than where they will likely end up which is poor working class areas.

I'm not arsed about 'undermining my objections to Reform' if the bar for their voters is so low that they think what Ben Habib said is fine. Or at all, really. I think there's a good chance we'll be saddled with a Reform government in three years' time, which will be the 2019 Tory government all over again (literally, with the same people apart from Farage instead of Johnson) and just as bloody useless. And the British public will be clamouring to kick out whoever the Reform PM is after just a few months because the current rose-tinted glasses about them 'stopping the boats' will be smashed into tiny pieces. So I'm quite sanguine about the possibility of a Reform government - it will lance the boil.

I don't think that's a serious policy but it's interesting that some Green voters are so angry about this. If you are a proponent of open borders then what is the problem? It makes sense in a way, why put the centres in areas that are very against immigration when some areas seem very pro immigration

Why would Reform be building the centres though when they'd already have stopped all the small boats, within days of coming to power? Those centres would take months if not years to build. Are they suggesting they WON'T solve the small boats problem then?!

They aren't any immigration in the first place.

So you accept that the comparisons to Hitlers intentions are spurious and a massive reach. That is at least something.

The next step is to understand the difference between unproven allegations and fact. He has not been proven to be anti semitic.

What ‘intentions’ do you think it makes extremely clear?

Can you provide evidence of his intentions to eradicate either Jews or any other racial/religious group?

Are you saying having immigrants in your area would be a punishment?

Who knows if they will or won't? I suspect they are the only ones willing to make the pretty radical changes needed to have a chance at stopping the boats but it's obviously a very tough nut to crack as the incentive for many to come to the UK is worth risking their lives for so they aren't going to be easily deterred.

Either way some detention centres will be needed as these centres don't just deal with those who got to the UK using small boats

Starmer isn t the real problem, it’s the likes of Rayner and her fellow left of centre colleagues who cry foul every time someone tries to do something to cut the cost of welfare, heaven forbid that they deny those on benefits their £20k tax free a year, or try to stop people illegally entering the country. I know many people on benefits genuinely are unable to work and rightfully need help but there are many others who could but don’t because they get more on benefits than they would earn

So it's going to cost the tax payer billions to build these detention centres and Reform won't actually stop the boats?

Can't wait for the next GE. It's going to be even better than Brexit.

This.

And with a party leader who had an appalling attendance record in the European Parliament and has a poor attendance record in the UK parliament and has never had a proper job in his life. His kids are OK though, his wife is German (the irony) and they have EU passports. No restrictions in visiting the EU for them.

So, we’ve had UKIP, the Brexit party, now Reform, so many name changes, l wonder what they will call themselves next year.

No, not at all, in fact I live in an area with a high immigrant population and I don't have an issue with it. Reform obviously do hence the annoucment that they would only put these centres in areas that have a Green MP or Green majority council.

Surely they are just giving people what they voted for. You want open borders, you got them!

You literally said that people who voted Green are being singled out for ‘negative treatment’ by having these Detention centres being put in their area. If you aren’t bothered by it then what is the issue? Makes perfect sense to me that the people who want to give them a warm welcome house them in their area. This should been seem as a positive should it not?

I don't know why you're pretending this is some kind of gotcha moment.

Reform will obviously attempt to stop the small boats and may well be successful. They are prepared to leave the ECHR and will have unified support within their own party to take some radical measures to detain and deport people. Labour are seriously hamstrung by their own party's left wing who simply won't tolerate any meaningful reforms. Nobody can guarantee that anything will work as we are dealing with highly motivated individuals desperate to get here. If the population are desperate to stop immigration and Reform's measure don't work then I imagine even more radical policies will gain popular support. I can imagine that detention centres will still be needed in this scenario too. Opinion polls have consistently shown that people aren't happy with the level and type of immigration that we currently have. They aren't suddenly going to accept it just because it's very difficult to tackle.

Is he not separated or divorced from his German wife? He has a girlfriend now, she has allegedly paid for his house in Clacton, which is all a bit vague and murky, oddly Farage's property dealing aren't as closely scrutinised as other politicians. I saw something online saying that Refom were a new party (true) and allowances should be made for some of the vetting errors and mistakes being made in local governement. Given that Farage has had around 3 decades in politics and Reform has a load of ex Tories on board several of whom have held cabinet posts there should be a wealth of political experience to draw on

That's because people don't understand the difference or how the system actually works.

It's Reform who see it as negative. Here's the original video
https://youtube.com/shorts/W3QET-35vYQ?si=JPk0POXKWqDZZTdy

So I'm quite sanguine about the possibility of a Reform government - it will lance the boil.

Just like the Brexit referendum lanced that particular boil?

Right but so what? Even if they do, the people in those areas should be saying no problem , we welcome you. Why would any government want to put them in an area that doesn’t want one? You have said you would be happy to have one so what’s the issue. What cause problems where there aren’t any. Those who wish to have one can volunteer. Those are going to be, most likely, areas where these is a Green majority.

Net migration has only got lower in their term because so many British people are LEAVING the country. The number of immigrants entering the country hasn’t actually got much lower at all.

Hope that helps

Hopefully the Government

I am not minimising the evil of Nazi Germany. I am showing, though, how easy it is for political parties to have similar rhetoric and policies.

Well you are minimising because you are sliding past the fact that Hitler was a genocidal maniac whose rhetoric was the precursor for him murdering 6 million Jews whereas Farage and Mahmood just want effective borders and are not advocating for anyone to be murdered, but you are drawing a comparison with the language used as if it was significant. Which it isn’t.

Hitler was also a vegetarian, are you going to start on Peta next because of the similarity in their views on animal cruelty with Hitler?